This about sums up my experience with the atheists among us: (Iraq, economic)

[jacqueg]

Originally Posted by Kracer

Get ready to be converted, science supports a 'creator' more each day. Atheist scientists are getting few and far between.

Please cite your source for this.

Last I heard, no more than 20% or so of the members of the NAS were theists, and the trend line has been down for several decades.

Also, for those who may be confused on this issue - there are many more kinds of theism than scriptural literalism, including biblical literalism.

[lchoro]

There's also a lot of atheists who follow a religion and go to church. They don't believe in a god, but go to church for the moral teachings and the social and economic advantages of being part of a community.

There are also some who are really pagans. I've heard them describe god as being a natural force that controls the universe. The communications purported between god and man then is really all in the head of the human who imagines anthropomorphic qualities on the other end.

[Three Wolves In Snow]

Originally Posted by katzpaw

I'll play the math card. About 20 sentences most of which are critical of atheists and none which are critical of Christians.

You cannot be serious. How old are you?

Originally Posted by PanapolicRiddle

If someone believes their own feces is responsible for all that exists, is that worthy of belittlement? Some beliefs truly are worthy of being belittled. Literal belief in a being that has no evidence physical manifestation, yet is responsible for everything physical that exists is one such belief.

Who cares what they believe? How does it affect your life?

Originally Posted by personne

Actually what baffles me (atheist speaking here) is not that some people believe in a deity. I can understand that, I have been guilty in the past (and maybe in the future) of making silly "deals" with a supposed god during difficult times, only to shake myself quickly back to reality.

What truly baffles me is how most people who do believe in a deity are 100% sure that their deity is the right one.

THIS is what I have a problem with. When I say "problem", I don't mean with anyone who believes it, I mean, it's not logical, because there is no proof. One can have faith, that's perfectly fine, but one does not know, because no one knows. For anyone, from atheists to the most devout, no. one. knows. No one can say, with 100% certainty, that they know. If more people, atheists to devout, would just fricken admit that, then maybe we could get somewhere.

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

I'm fond of saying that no matter what you believe WRT religion, you believe the impossible. All of this poofing into existence from nothing is impossible. So is God. Yet here we are and we have to pick one.

Personally, I'm with Einstein on this one. The more I study science, the more I believe there's a God. The incredible amount of random accidents that had to happen to get from nothing to here is mind numbing. So is the existence of God but I only have one impossible thing here. Everything else becomes possible if there is a God. It's all still impossible if there isn't one. Yet here we are. Iron clad proof that the impossible happens. The question is which impossible path got us here?

And that really is the big question.

Originally Posted by Kracer

Get ready to be converted, science supports a 'creator' more each day. Atheist scientists are getting few and far between.

Please explain further.

Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA

<shrug> "Explaining" a huge, complex entity by postulating the existence of another, more complex entity that happens to be unknowable and unfathomable doesn't cut much ice with me. I don't know. I would not be surprised to learn we can't know. That's OK. I'll rather be uncomfortably ignorant than pretend knowledge.

I think you are on to something - we can't know.

Originally Posted by randomparent

Regarding the assertions made about what Atheists do or do not believe, I think that as in politics, the vocal minorities spend a whole lot of time arguing with each other while ignoring the quiet majority. I don't think the crusaders on either side of the issue have any idea what I do or do not believe about the role of religion in public life regardless of of the label I adopt. Furthermore, I'm fairly certain any contribution I might make to the conversation would be dismissed out of hand if it didn't fit into a neat little box. There is a tremendous amount of variation along the spectrum of faith in a higher power, and most of us fall somewhere between the poles.

Some of us would like to hear your thoughts. What I don't like, from either side, (I added that to soothe the delicate sensibilities of some of the posters here who think I don't give equal air time...whatever), is those who insult others who don't think the same way. I'm tired of hearing, "Jesus is the ONLY way" or "you will go to hell if you don't accept..." or "floating fairy in the sky" or "magical unicorn" or whatever other stupid crap gets said. Some of us actually DO want to hear people's opinions, but with FAR less condescending attitudes involved.

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

As much as atheists say they don't care what others think about their lack of faith they just can't help attempting to turn people of faith away from theirs, belittling their beliefs and constantly trying to prove the improvable; precisely what they accuse Christians of. Rather pitiful I think! It always makes me wonder what they're afraid of. Could it be they fear ultimately being proven wrong? If so, then what? No one knows.

Two wrongs do not make a right. I do see this complaint quite often when I have asked in other areas, why bother? I always get some sob story about how the horrible, mean Christians "shoved" their religion down the person's throat, as if they were held captive and were completely incapable of walking away. Retaliating by going in to every comment forum/section that you can find and trashing on people's beliefs, calling them stupid, ignorant, backwoods, etc is not the best way to get anyone to listen.

Originally Posted by censusdata

The Bible proves itself wrong by hundreds upon hundreds of major contradictions.

A List Of Biblical Contradictions

Do I want an error riddled old book used as the basis for high school science classes over real science? Some schools now teach creationism rather than evolution. Abstinence only taught rather than birth control? These things destroy human lives. I was raised conservative Christian and have seen it with my own eyes. Moderate religion is ok but the hard core fundamentalism stuff is dangerous.

If religion is so good why do the most religious states have the highest rates of...

divorce
porn viewership
our of wedlock births
homicide
public executions
obesity
cancer
etc

If Christianity is so great how do you explain away the fact the less religious places have fewer social problems?

I was always told not to take the Bible literally. I was raised Episcopalian, a Christian religion, and we were never told to take it literally. I've always been taught that the Bible was written by man, not by God, and we also have to remember, how many translations have there been? How much gets lost in translation? We were taught it was a guide book, not straight from the mouth of God. I can't believe anyone would take it literally...it's impossible for no other reason than the untold amounts of times it has been rewritten to match the language or vernacular at the time.

Originally Posted by BruSan

Mankind is susceptible to the provision of any kind of emotional crutch.

Provide man with a ready made escape route for any kind of transgression or the belief things can be better against the prevalence of all evidence to the contrary and without any effort of a personal nature being required and guess what happens; fish symbol bumper stickers, crosses on lawns, along with signage proclaiming their belief, spring up like mushrooms whereas it's those atheists supposedly attempting to indoctrinate.

Go to church every Sunday, confess your transgressions, get an automatic forgiveness with the simple redemption of your previous week's "I'm a believer coupon" with a wash-rinse-repeat weekly cycle devised from some calendar on a 7 day cycle, again created by mere men.

Sit in a building built by mere men but given special status as a "house of God", regardless of man not even having houses at his supposed creation by a supreme deity, while listening to a mere man professing to know what this supreme deity had, and continues to have, in mind based upon nothing more than the writings of other mere men eons ago.

Perform this ritual of strict obeisance, regardless of the fact various continents have similar beliefs ranging in spectrum from fat men sitting with their legs crossed on a pedestal through some guy on a white horse to a fellow with long white hair hanging among the clouds. there being thousands of manifestations of this supreme being with just as many varying orthodoxy of beliefs. "God" being defined as needed to fit the "emotional crutch" requirement.

The aspects of 'proof of substance' normally required for any belief in anything beyond doubt is immediately over-ridden by the mere desire to believe in something giving them special dispensations, ergo; an "emotional crutch".

The simple 'I will treat everyone as I would desire them to treat me' does not need or require a 'supreme being' edict and would be a normal evolutionary higher order result, but, of course, these folks need someone to tell them it is one of God's commands before lending it credence and putting it to the fore in their thinking and actions.

All of this given legitimacy and relevance merely by all of these mere humans emotively proclaiming at the tops of their little lungs: "God say's it's so" while quoting some passage in one of many books called scripture, written again; by mere men.

No, it doesn't require one, but it does help some people to think before they act. There's nothing wrong with that. And not to quote a character from a sitcom, but I, too, have never understood a deity that takes attendance. Should be that your belief should be at all times, no matter where you are. Should be that your requests should be at all times, not just in a building on a certain day of the week. Should be that it's a 24/7 thing, not one out of seven days. Some people who claim to be Christian, and go to church every Sunday, but then act like prats the rest of the week, does not mean that all Christians are that way. Some people do use religion as a cover, to be quite honest, because I've seen it, while others truly do believe, with every fiber of their being, that there is a God, and they live their whole lives, every second of the day, based on that belief. Again, we cannot lump all people the same simply because some people act one way. Not every single preacher/priest/minister says they know everything, nor do they claim to know everything. Many of them use the Bible as a guide, to lead people to a better way of living...it's almost like a therapists office in some cases.

Originally Posted by dba07

Religion is harmful garbage. As it was designed to control others, religion often promises rewards in the afterlife if you simply believe. This removes the motivation to make the world a better place for us now, and for future generations. Why bother, if you'll spend eons in paradise?

Second, religion is imposed upon innocent children before they have the ability to develop skepticism. Telling children they are born sinners and that they will burn unless they (insert nonsensical dogma here) is child abuse.

See, we could care less about what you believe, but we sure do care about the IMPACT of those beliefs. The more humans start ditch the mythology, the more we will learn about the world and the less humanity will be able to seperate themselves based upon nonsense ( my god is better than your god).

We are all in this together. There's no heaven, no hell. We have this life only, and all we have is each other. Let's make it count.

You don't know if there is a heaven or hell. You are making statements as if you have 100% knowledge which is what many on this thread take issue with. You don't know, but you sit there and act like you know, and tell anyone who doesn't think the way you do that they believe in garbage. That's b.s.

It is not "harmful garbage" to many people. Many people find incredible strength in their beliefs. Your condescending attitude is EXACTLY what I was talking about earlier. You don't know more than anyone else on here, but that didn't stop you from insulting people in general.

[jacqueg]

Originally Posted by nononsenseguy

Believing in "nothing" is to allow evil to reign. Life itself becomes valueless. You become a person without a conscience. All things are acceptable. Nothing matters.

That does not describe me at all. Speak for yourself.

[jacqueg]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

As much as atheists say they don't care what others think about their lack of faith they just can't help attempting to turn people of faith away from theirs, belittling their beliefs and constantly trying to prove the improvable; precisely what they accuse Christians of. Rather pitiful I think! It always makes me wonder what they're afraid of. Could it be they fear ultimately being proven wrong? If so, then what? No one knows.

Excuse me, who started this thread? Why, it was a christian who approvingly cited an article belittling atheists.

[Seabass Inna Bun]

Originally Posted by nononsenseguy

Believing in "nothing" is to allow evil to reign. Life itself becomes valueless. You become a person without a conscience. All things are acceptable. Nothing matters.

So says the torture supporter.

[Scooby Snacks]

Originally Posted by lchoro

There's also a lot of atheists who follow a religion and go to church. They don't believe in a god, but go to church for the moral teachings and the social and economic advantages of being part of a community.

There are also some who are really pagans. I've heard them describe god as being a natural force that controls the universe. The communications purported between god and man then is really all in the head of the human who imagines anthropomorphic qualities on the other end.

That's a contradiction in terms. A person who is religious, and/or believes in deitie(s), is NOT an atheist.

[randomparent]

Originally Posted by Scooby Snacks

That's a contradiction in terms. A person who is religious, and/or believes in deitie(s), is NOT an atheist.

But some Atheists do attend church, if only for the music. I knew one personally. He and the pastor were old, dear friends from university, and he was quite up-front about his lack of faith. They were a complete hoot together, and it was clear that they truly enjoyed each other's company.

[jacqueg]

Originally Posted by randomparent

But some Atheists do attend church, if only for the music. I knew one personally. He and the pastor were old, dear friends from university, and he was quite up-front about his lack of faith. They were a complete hoot together, and it was clear that they truly enjoyed each other's company.

This is true. There are lots of reasons to attend church, actual belief is only one of them.

[randomparent]

I once was a member of a church in Maryland that drew profession opera singers from D.C. I am absolutely certain that more than a few of the people sitting in the pews came only for the music. That church also drew many homeless people from the surrounding neighborhood. Many of them came only for the warmth, free food, and human companionship.