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What's absolutely astonishing is that in some cases, these people spend their entire lives proselytizing people into their insanity, yet they have never even tried to explain the logistics of this alleged program.
The logistics are hardly hard to imagine. Military planes based out of military bases, fueling, filling and execution. As noted prior, just a few planes can create enough trail to cover thousands of square miles.
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I'm a very practical person with a very analytical mind. I like to know how stuff works, even if I can only get a rudimentary explanation of the systems, mechanics or processes involved. I was taking apart radios and telephones when I was eight years old, much to the chagrin of my parents, just to see how they worked. I would trace the copper lines on circuit boards to figure out what led to what, and then try and understand how all the components worked together. I can usually either determine through research or make a reasonable and logical guess as to how something is possible.
Aww, that's terrific! Tell us about the time you built a working model of a volcano in middle school? Please? You sound like a super fascinating person!
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The chemtrail theory is impossible. Plain and simple. I've been following this theory (as a subscriber for a short time at first, when I was young and stupid) since the '90s. Nobody has EVER offered ANY explanation of exactly how this is taking place. It's always "well, THEY have the resources to pull it off." Bullcrap. "They" can't do anything magical or outside the laws of physics. Stuff just doesn't materialize out of thin air, and the sheer volume of material that would need to be manufactured in secret if the 'trailers claims were true is enough to quash the theory. One doesn't even need to consider the other logistical issues - the theory falls apart when it reaches its very first hurdle.
Impossible? How so? Geo engineering is a widely discussed theory in mainstream scientific circles. The notion of global dimming to combat global warming is mainstream science, not fringe science. Note I did not say a widely used in practice (that's what we are arguing about here), but injecting particles into the atmosphere to "dim" the amount of light reaching the surface is not exactly "wild conspiracy" stuff, it's being discussed currently by climate scientists.
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So yeah. It hasn't been thought through, despite the remarkable amount of time these people waste on it. They're so busy looking for that elusive smoking gun that they never checked to see if it had actually been fired.
No, the only thing that hasn't been thought through is your obvious problem with topics you can't imagine you aren't an expert in already.
The logistics are hardly hard to imagine. Military planes based out of military bases, fueling, filling and execution.
That's it? That's your explanation of the logistics involved in this global spraying campaign? You haven't addressed anything. "Military planes" is not a description that covers the manufacturing and distribution of tens of thousands of tons or more of "chemicals" daily. It doesn't explain why the entire aviation community thinks you're, um, "wrong" (to put it nicely).
This is a Virgin America flight. NOT a military aircraft. I crushed your "military planes" explanation two years ago with five minutes and a video camera. As was stated earlier, you haven't thought this through.
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Originally Posted by Mr. Maryland
Impossible? How so? Geo engineering is a widely discussed theory in mainstream scientific circles. The notion of global dimming to combat global warming is mainstream science, not fringe science. Note I did not say a widely used in practice (that's what we are arguing about here), but injecting particles into the atmosphere to "dim" the amount of light reaching the surface is not exactly "wild conspiracy" stuff, it's being discussed currently by climate scientists.
Sort of. And discussion does not equal implementation, in case you needed a reminder of that.
Yes. The claim that persistent contrails are deliberately sprayed "chemtrails" is impossible. Like I said, I've been following this theory for two decades, and in that time, not a single chemtrailer, including you, has been able to satisfy a simple demand for a plausible explanation of the logistics behind this supposed spraying program. Not one. You don't get to throw all logic out the window simply because "the military". Come on - you're smarter than that. Aren't you?
Also, as I've explicitly stated earlier in the thread, my only interest in these discussions is whether or not the lines in the sky are persistent contrails or deliberately sprayed chemtrails. Geoengineering in general is a MUCH broader topic that's better suited for discussion in other venues. Furthermore, "geoengineering" (the modification of an environment) is done every day by billions of people. Every time you turn on the heater or close a window, you're geoengineering on a small scale. Geoengineering isn't an inherently evil concept. That's all I have to say about that, as it's outside my sphere of interest when it comes to this topic.
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Originally Posted by Mr. Maryland
No, the only thing that hasn't been thought through is your obvious problem with topics you can't imagine you aren't an expert in already.
I never said I'm an expert at anything. What I did say is that I like to know how things work, and I take a very pragmatic approach to things.
I don't know all the details of the internal combustion engine, and I'm as far from being a mechanic as one can get, but I understand that fuel is mixed with air, forced into a cylinder, compressed and then ignited, which moves the crankshaft and produces energy which can be transferred to the axles. The basics.
I don't know every detail of the postal system's distribution processes, but I know that I put a letter into a mailbox, it gets picked up and taken to a facility where it's sorted, then it's put on a plane or a truck to be taken to its destination or another sorting facility where the process repeats until the letter is delivered. The basics.
Nobody's ever been able to provide a plausible explanation of how all this stuff can be manufactured, distributed and dispersed while maintaining the highest level of secrecy of any project in the history of the world, all while the alleged plan is being carried out in plain sight. It's always just vague non-answers like "military planes." Sorry, Charlie. That's not an explanation. It's an argument from ignorance, as is the very premise of this thread.
It's you and those who believe the same as you that are confused.
Here's the thing. What I say is irrelevant to the issue of whether or not those who are making the accusations (you) are providing anything to substantiate their (your) claims. You haven't put forth anything meaningful, therefore, I have no obligation to "prove" anything whatsoever.
Nobody asked you to "prove" anything, but you are correct in that what you say is irrelevant, because, as I pointed out, you've been mixing fallacies with faulty assumptions to create your straw man arguments.
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Originally Posted by swagger
You can continue to pretend that you're tearing my argument apart, but the simple fact is that it's just a defense mechanism on your part which allows you to ignore the elephant in the room and shift your focus to attacking others. This has the additional psychological bonus of self-confirming your own flawed position. You get to stroke your confirmation bias while feeling good about attempting to belittle someone else. Win-win!
You don't have an argument to tear apart. As for this "elephant in the room" ... what exactly might you be referring to?
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Originally Posted by swagger
What, so the atmospheric scientists (the people that top the list of those who would know if persistent contrails are possible or not) that aren't involved in the conspiracy are all just stupid? They see the contrails, er chemtrails, and their mind just blocks them out or something?
Appeals to authority is the weakest of all arguments Yes, there are scientists that fall in a wide range ... some may even be stupid ... others ... taking a paycheck ... follow the leader is a very very common formula for mainstream science which covers vast territory.
Fact is, this embrace of authority figure urges one to abandon thinking, and simply believe what you are told, like children. But even children do not need to consult mathematicians in order to solve 2+2.
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Originally Posted by swagger
Yes, EVERY SINGLE ONE. Pilots and whatnot, fine, I'll give you that, although I shouldn't, but the very people who have spent their lives learning about exactly these sorts of conditions are supposed to just be oblivious? Come on. You don't know how badly you're failing at backing up your position, if you think that's going to fly in this forum.
Again, an "expert" is only a person who has accepted as truth, a thing that has been taught him by someone else. Our universities are pumping out droves of these types of people.
Funny how the human mind actually works .... if you had been taught that 2+2=5 from K-12 grade, you'd reject any suggestion that the true sum was 4. No argument .. no matter how accurate and rational could convince you that you were wrong, because you'd use the very same foundational argument you have been using here on this topic! You'd decry .. " so what are you saying? .... All my teachers from kindergarten to senior high school ... all of them are idiots or in on some conspiracy?" What you cannot seem to grasp is that using such an argument is TOTALLY IMMATERIAL to the fact that 2+2 indeed equals 4. Why all of those teachers taught you that it was 5 is irrelevant. Doesn't change the math.
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Originally Posted by swagger
Who made the tanks? What are they filling it with? Where'd they get it? Who produced it? Who transported it? Who paid for it, and with what money? Who's tracking the books for this operation, and how many?
You see, you need a lot more than just "a couple of people per plane".
More straw man arguments ... i.e. the assumption that special tanks would be required, or that the blue collar labor manufacturing the tanks would need to know or even care what they were going to be used for. Apply that same formula to all of the other straw man arguments .... and familiarize yourself with the term "compartmentalization" ... this is a very common element of employing vast numbers of people who's individual tasks offer no view of the larger effort or final product.
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Originally Posted by swagger
Sure, and I helped build the diggers that the underworlders use. Don't believe me? Shill.
I was wondering when the absurd angle would be thrown in. We'll just pass this by ...
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Originally Posted by swagger
Let me know when someone is able to produce some PHYSICAL evidence, ok?
Already have ... you just choose to overlook it because it doesn't fit your image of reality. And nothing. to include CONFESSIONS is apparently "evidence" in your mind .... that's just how deeply committed to that image you are.
The absurdity knows no boundary here ..... we have visual evidence of aerosols being deployed in massive quantities ... we have the patent documents of the technology designed to deliver these aerosols ... we have scientists and engineers discussing the use of aerosols to combat climate change and manipulate weather ... we have military applications discussed regarding such technologies as over the horizon radar systems which utilize suspended nano-particulate in the atmosphere as the medium for reflecting those radar signals ...... and what is your response? Let you know when there is some evidence?
I'm reminded of the "Dumb and Dumber" scene in which Jim Carrey says "So you're saying there's a chance!" after Lauren Holly tells him the chances of them getting together are more like one in a million.
Here's the deal. Aircraft are certainly more than capable of doing this. That is not what I'm saying. We have aircraft that are designed to assist in putting out wild fires, aerial refueling, spy planes, gunships, airborne command and control centers, and a modified 747 that is a flying White House. There is no argument that planes are capable of doing this. It really wouldn't be that hard.
The difficult thing to explain away is why I or anyone I have ever met: pilot, engineer, or fellow mechanic who has either:
1. Worked on, deployed, or engineered a "Chemtrail System."
2. Met another pilot, engineer, or mechanic who has worked on, deployed, or engineered a "Chemtrail System."
As I said, there are only three, maybe four degrees of separation in aviation. It really is a pretty small community, believe it or not. What I mean by that is pick a mechanic at "Airline X." Maybe I don't know him. But I bet I know a guy who probably knows him and if I don't. Then my buddy will know a buddy who knows him.
We hear the stories about guys who've gotten fired at other airlines, we know all about strange incidents, circumstances, and mishaps on certain aircraft. We know when someone does something to get themselves seriously injured, killed or otherwise. Heck, we even hear about unique flights like flying a Bengal Tiger to some zoo...
All it would take is for one engineer, one mechanic or one pilot to at least make the claim that they fall into category 1 or 2 above. In sixteen years in military and civilian aviation (and my father has over 40) I have never heard such a claim.
There are numerous claims made on YouTube, this forum, and many others that chemtrails are rather abundant. It seems like anyone with a video camera who points up at the sky can find an aircraft "spraying chemicals." I could see an argument being had that there's one airplane undergoing "super duper secret testing" in some cave in Nevada.... As ridiculous as it would still sound, it's far more plausible than the concept of there being hundreds of aircraft flying around with these "Chemtrail Systems" installed.
But, just for grins... Let's say there is such a system installed on one of the airplanes I work on... Let's say the plane lands after a nice day of spraying... Here's, at a minimum, what would happen before the plane could have its chemical tanks refilled:
The plane lands, and is marshaled in by a mechanic who proceeds to do a walk around looking for any leaks, flat tires, missing parts, etc... Provided there are no leaks from the residual fluids dispensed by the chemicals from the manifold none of us have ever seen, he'll then go upstairs to which he would have to check the quantity of the chemical dispensary system on the indicator none of us have ever seen to see how low it is. At that point, assuming it's low, he has to call out a guy in servicing who drives a truck/cart/etc... out full of these supposedly nasty chemicals that have been maintained in some chemical barn no one has ever seen by a group of people none of us have met, hooks it up to the servicing port no one has ever seen, and begins to pump the chemicals into the tank no one has ever seen.
Let's assume there's an indication problem on the system no one has ever seen. I might get sent out to look at the wiring of the system with a wiring diagram no one has ever seen. Maybe my diagrams aren't right because no one has ever updated them because no one has ever seen them so I call aircraft engineering and ask for the "Chemtrail System" diagram that doesn't exist and that no one has ever seen.
He sends me the document that doesn't exist and that no one has ever seen and then I proceed to troubleshoot the system that isn't there. I then find a broken wire for a system that isn't installed on the aircraft and look up the repair procedure for splicing "Chemtrail System" wiring for which I've never seen in a maintenance manual. Is it a butt splice, an environmental splice, a high temp splice, a low temp splice??? We'll never know!
I repair the wire that isn't there for the system that doesn't exist, and then I proceed to perform an operational check of the "Chemtrail System" per the depicted Adjustment/Test procedure that isn't written in a maintenance manual because it doesn't exist. Oh, one question... How do I perform an operational check of a "Chemtrail Dispensing System" on the ground in plain view of a bunch of people who aren't supposed to know about it?
I then sign off the maintenance entry I created for the system that doesn't exist, code it into a certain ATA code that isn't there because it doesn't exist, and document that the chemtrail system is now working per the maintenance manual that doesn't exist because the system isn't there.
When that's all said and done, the next flight crew "in the know" about the system that doesn't exist, gets on the aircraft, and dispenses the chemicals that aren't there and the process repeats itself.
And you mean to tell me that this sort of thing happens day in and day out, all over the world (or at least the U.S.) and I've never met a single person in the business who has so much as touched a system such as this?
I think not...
Thank you for sharing... Thats allot of time around aviation. never say never....
" Posted in this story is a very interesting PDF available for download here for a 1975 U.S. Patent issued to Donald K. Werle, Romas Kasparas, Sidney Katz, assigned through the U.S. Navy, that describes a dispersion method for a “powder contrail.”
As other researchers have also pointed out, the Powder Contrail Generation patent document could be a useful clue into the true agenda and purpose of the “chemtrail” phenomenon, which is clearly tied to almost a century of man-made weather manipulation. Already, it is admitted that the government has experimented with geo-engineering, which is says would help reflect heat and combat phony global warming / climate change."
I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.
That film comes to mind every time someone fires up one of these threads. I wonder how many chemtrailers have seen it, and if they identify with that character at all...
Most of that video shows water ballast tanks used for flight testing, because moving the center of gravity by having volunteers running back and forth has a lot of serious drawbacks, lack of volunteers being one of them. Then there's some JATO take-off photos, some crop dusters, at least one weapons station. Just because you can't identify an aircraft component doesn't mean it has a sinister motive.
You're being lied to. Deliberately. And those who are lying to you have now made you repeat the lies. Doesn't that make you just a little mad?
"Right now, Dr. Watson is working on a $2.8 million project of this exact nature. The plan is to inject sulfur particles into the earth's atmosphere with the stated goal of blocking the sun's rays from reaching Earth, ostensibly to keep the earth from getting too warm.
"Personally, this stuff terrifies me," Dr. Watson told reporters. "Whilst it is clear that temperatures could be reduced during deployment, the potential for misstep is considerable.""
the scientific community is trying to change.. contrails to include exhaust fumes and chemtrails to cover their tracks. Its in plane sight....
no one knew NSA was spying on us... Snowden wasn't the first guy to bring it out there were others. Chemtrails.... we are not the first to bring it out... its out, get educated make the right choice to know... or to "NO"
Many times, especially for long range flights, planes take off with far more fuel on board than they can safely land with. For a heavily-fueled plane, fuel can be more than half the gross takeoff weight.
They can't land with that much weight, so if they have to abort the flight and land before they have burned off enough fuel to be at or below the safe landing weight they have to
DUMP FUEL
Until they are below the max safe landing weight.
have you seen the skies... the long trails behind the planes? all of that is fuel?
I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.
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