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Thanks for passing that information along. Now, do you think you could manage to apologize for calling me a "Kook" in that earlier post? Because it was incredibly rude given the civility I've demonstrated throughout this entire discussion.
90% of children who die from flu (the ONLY reportable deaths no matter what anyone deigns to argue) were not vaccinated.
Oh, knock off the guilt tripping!
Here's the latest word from the CDC about Tamiflu (the latest I could find, anyway) CDC Recommends Antiviral Drugs For At-Risk Patients
There's lots in here, but here's a blurb about Tamiflu: "FRIEDEN: There are ample supplies, though, there could be spot shortages in some places. Generally, there’s enough. We think doctors aren’t used to the idea. We’re used to the idea of treating bacterial infections with antibiotics. But we’re just not that accustomed to treating the flu with antivirals. And that’s something we hope will change."
The CDC has not recommended limiting Tamiflu prescriptions.
"Flu" is not listed on death certificates. One cannot die from the "flu".
Flu deaths are estimates. The actual cause of death is something else.
Not everyone is prone to catching everything under the sun.
Some people are just naturally healthy.
I don't have a personal pharmacist like you do because I don't get sick that often.
The last time I had to fill a prescription was about 3 years ago and I don't even remember where I went to fill it..CVS, my local supermarket, etc.
From my perspective I avoid people who are constantly sick and constantly going to the doctor.
I just don't want to catch anything from them.
That was entirely uncalled for.
I thought you were a teacher. You're likely to be in contact with a lot of people who are constantly sick; you're certainly around people whose health status is unknown to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
I didn't know that your nursing degree made you an epidemiologist? Anyways, what I said is true. When you get a vaccine your immune system reacts to the invader by launching an immune response. When your immune system is fighting off one infection it is temporarily weakened. This is why people with autoimmune disease have more trouble fighting off illness then others.
I don't have any "gurus'. I'm not a follower. I'm interested in information and the truth. I could not care less about degrees or status.
There is a small risk from the vaccine. That is what I've been saying. Nothing more, nothing less.
I have spent a large part of my career in public health, working with the epidemiologists in the immunization program. And if you question anyone else's credentials again, including mine, you will be reported. You won't tell us what yours are.
Your immune system can handle more than one antigen at a time; it does so on a daily basis. An influenza infection will stress your immune system far more than a flu vaccination.
There is little to no risk of GBS from a flu shot. Vaccines and Guillain-Barré syndrome. - PubMed - NCBI
" Our review indicates that, with rare exceptions, associations between vaccines and GBS have been only temporal. There is little evidence to support a causal association with most vaccines. The evidence for a causal association is strongest for the swine influenza vaccine that was used in 1976-77. Studies of influenza vaccines used in subsequent years, however, have found small or no increased risk of GBS. Older formulations of rabies vaccine cultured in mammalian brain tissues have been found to have an increased risk of GBS, but newer formulations of rabies vaccine, derived from chick embryo cells, do not appear to be associated with GBS at a greater than expected rate. In an earlier review, the Institute of Medicine concluded that the evidence favoured a causal association between oral polio vaccine and tetanus toxoid-containing vaccines and GBS. However, recent evidence from large epidemiological studies and mass immunization campaigns in different countries found no correlation between oral polio vaccine or tetanus toxoid-containing vaccines and GBS. Spontaneous reports to the US Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System shortly after the introduction of quadrivalent conjugated meningococcal vaccine (MCV4) raised concerns of a possible association with GBS. Comparisons with expected rates of GBS, however, were inconclusive for an increased risk, and lack of controlled epidemiological studies makes it difficult to draw conclusions about a causal association. For other vaccines, available data are based on isolated case reports or very small clusters temporally related to immunizations, and no conclusion about causality can be drawn."
I thought you were a teacher. You're likely to be in contact with a lot of people who are constantly sick; you're certainly around people whose health status is unknown to you.
I have spent a large part of my career in public health, working with the epidemiologists in the immunization program. And if you question anyone else's credentials again, including mine, you will be reported. You won't tell us what yours are.
Your immune system can handle more than one antigen at a time; it does so on a daily basis. An influenza infection will stress your immune system far more than a flu vaccination.
There is little to no risk of GBS from a flu shot. Vaccines and Guillain-Barré syndrome. - PubMed - NCBI
" Our review indicates that, with rare exceptions, associations between vaccines and GBS have been only temporal. There is little evidence to support a causal association with most vaccines. The evidence for a causal association is strongest for the swine influenza vaccine that was used in 1976-77. Studies of influenza vaccines used in subsequent years, however, have found small or no increased risk of GBS. Older formulations of rabies vaccine cultured in mammalian brain tissues have been found to have an increased risk of GBS, but newer formulations of rabies vaccine, derived from chick embryo cells, do not appear to be associated with GBS at a greater than expected rate. In an earlier review, the Institute of Medicine concluded that the evidence favoured a causal association between oral polio vaccine and tetanus toxoid-containing vaccines and GBS. However, recent evidence from large epidemiological studies and mass immunization campaigns in different countries found no correlation between oral polio vaccine or tetanus toxoid-containing vaccines and GBS. Spontaneous reports to the US Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System shortly after the introduction of quadrivalent conjugated meningococcal vaccine (MCV4) raised concerns of a possible association with GBS. Comparisons with expected rates of GBS, however, were inconclusive for an increased risk, and lack of controlled epidemiological studies makes it difficult to draw conclusions about a causal association. For other vaccines, available data are based on isolated case reports or very small clusters temporally related to immunizations, and no conclusion about causality can be drawn."
GOVERNMENT WEBSITE!
If you are so sensitive then maybe you'd like to extend the same respect to others that you wish to have for yourself. Personally I don't think credentials are relevant on a public message board but you keep bringing them up and denigrating people like Doshi because he doesn't have the one's you like, or people like me because I don't care to share that kind of information. From my point of view, they are not relevant to this type of discussion.
I also have no idea why you keep arguing with me about GBS. That's what I said, there is a small risk. No need to prove to me what I already have been saying.
If you are so sensitive then maybe you'd like to extend the same respect to others that you wish to have for yourself.
Oh, give me a break. In this thread, I have been accused of being a "shill" for "Big Pharma", a laughable idea at best. I have been mocked and asked if my job at a pediatric office is to put the toys away. You question my credentials. You accuse those on this thread who disagree with you of "fear-mongering" and you mock our responses to these "alternative" ideas of yours. You asked suzy_q2010 for her credentials and she gladly told you. But she and I have both asked you for yours, and you refuse to tell us. You are the one who needs to be more respectful.
Oh, give me a break. In this thread, I have been accused of being a "shill" for "Big Pharma", a laughable idea at best. I have been mocked and asked if my job at a pediatric office is to put the toys away.
Not by me.
Quote:
You question my credentials.
Only after you told me that I was ignorant and that I obviously do not have such and such degree and you repeatedly mocked certain people for not having a specific degree.
Quote:
You asked suzy_q2010 for her credentials and she gladly told you.
I think Suzy works for the CDC. I wondered if she would actually say who she worked for. No such luck. If she refused to answer I certainly would not have badgered her or said things like "obviously you don't have a such and such background".
Quote:
But she and I have both asked you for yours, and you refuse to tell us.
You asked a question and I declined to answer. This is a public message board. Not everyone wants to share such personal details on a site like this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana
You accuse those on this thread who disagree with you of "fear-mongering" and you mock our responses to these "alternative" ideas of yours.
I absolutely did say that certain posters were "fear mongering" because they were. I also will proudly stand by my "alternative" ideas despite being told they are not good enough.
It is impossible to catch the flu from the shot because the virus within the shot is not activated. If shots made people sick, just about everyone who works in healthcare would become sick.
Some people are exposed to the flu shortly before getting the shot and become sick. They were going to become sick, no matter what.
Other times, the annual vaccination does not match the virus strain that becomes prevalent in any given flu season.
Typically, people get the flu because they chose not to get vaccinated and are exposed to the virus from other people who made the same lousy decision.
People have reported flu-like symptoms from the shot.
Anyway, how is it a lousy decision when you just admitted in the same post that the shot may not be effective anyway for other reasons? Sounds like you're just biased.
It's okay to make informed decisions against getting a flu vaccination, especially when you're not in the risk age group they are fear mongering about. It's called a calculated risk. People are adults and are allowed to control what goes into their bodies. What happened to choice?
Some people don't blindly follow the herd mentality that is bullying everyone to get their flu shot, especially when said flu shot admittedly doesn't even match the strain going around.
Like I've said in past discussions, we need more information regarding the people who we are told have died from the flu.
If you guys knock off the fear mongering.
Spot shortages would make me thing twice about taking a dose for myself when someone with a more serious need may need it. That's just me though.
Oh, give me another break! If you are so interested in this information, you can do a simple Google search. IIRC, about 40% of these kids have NO pre-existing conditions that would make them more likely to do from the flu, and 90% have not been immunized. What more do you feel is needed?
Sanctimony will get you nowhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan
"Flu" is not listed on death certificates. One cannot die from the "flu".
Flu deaths are estimates. The actual cause of death is something else.
One certainly can die of "flu". Here's an explanation from your favorite people, the CDC: Estimating Seasonal Influenza-Associated Deaths in the United States: CDC Study Confirms Variability of Flu | Seasonal Influenza (Flu) | CDC
" Second, seasonal influenza is infrequently listed on death certificates of people who die from flu-related complications. Third, many seasonal flu-related deaths occur one or two weeks after a person’s initial infection, either because the person may develop a secondary bacterial co-infection (such as bacterial pneumonia) or because seasonal influenza can aggravate an existing chronic illness (such as congestive heart failure or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease). Also, most people who die from seasonal flu-related complications are not tested for flu, or they seek medical care later in their illness when seasonal influenza can no longer be detected from respiratory samples. " Yes, there's some estimating going on. But it's not like they send Alfred E. Newman in to make some wild random guesses.
Here's an article from three days ago: Iowa Teenager Dies Days After Flu Symptoms Appear | whotv.com "The Polk County Medical Examiner’s Office says since early November, they’ve listed influenza as the cause of death on seven death certificates. Two of those were children."
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