Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-04-2015, 10:24 AM
 
26,332 posts, read 14,939,530 times
Reputation: 14507

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
Apparently you need more context. Cheney's deficits don't matter quote was in regard to the piling up of the national debt. Deficits build debt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
no it wasnt, it was about that years budget deficit.
Just to add more context so that you can learn more and comprehend. Then Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill argued that:

-The growing deficits = growing national debt

-Growing national debt = growing interest payments on the national debt

-Interest rates can't be forced low forever, so that is NOT a long term solution

-You can't print your way out of large debt without devastating inflation, so that is NOT a long term solution

Hence O'Neill argued that the growing debt (from growing deficits) = a looming Fiscal Crisis where a large debt means that annual interest payments on the national debt will eat away at our ability to afford other things that we need.


Cheney then argued to O'Neill that deficits don't matter, Reagan proved that.


Paul O'Neill wouldn't drop his position and was forced out of the Bush Administration.


Watch the movie IOUSA.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-04-2015, 11:26 AM
 
335 posts, read 422,830 times
Reputation: 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by xboxmas View Post
Of course, in the liberals eyes its Bush's fault.
Both Bush and Obama are to blame, IMO.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-04-2015, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Florida
77,013 posts, read 47,464,680 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-0...-1814-trillion

"The problem is, is that the way Bush has done it over the last eight years is to take out a credit card from the Bank of China in the name of our children, driving up our national debt from $5 trillion dollars for the first 42 presidents — number 43 added $4 trillion dollars by his lonesome, so that we now have over $9 trillion dollars of debt that we are going to have to pay back — $30,000 for every man, woman and child.
That’s irresponsible. It’s unpatriotic."

***Followed by Applause that breaks out into a Yes We Can Chant***
Call your Congressman and complain. Only Congress can authorize spending. Ask Boehner to explain all the spending.

I do not believe the plan was ever to pay to off. Who told you that?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-04-2015, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,452 posts, read 16,432,671 times
Reputation: 5967
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
No, I am right and you probably know this it is just more of your little dance you do to obfuscate.

Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neil was arguing that the high deficits were sky rocketing the national DEBT, which would create a Fiscal Crisis in the future making it hard to pay off the national debt. Paul O'Neil explains this in the movie IOUSA.

Cheney then responded that deficits don't matter. O'Neil wouldn't drop it and was then forced out of the administration.
See, you are presenting multuple problems here.

1. We arent arguing the same thing.

Im talking about what Cheney meant, not what O'Neil meant. Cheney was responding to the electoral and short term ramifications of deficits.

There is no dance going on. Im debating in good faith where as you ( demonstrated below with your "you think its ok for Obama to lie" comment) are just arguing for the sake of attacking Democrats.




Quote:
Yes, there is a which Obama. You are the one saying the world is black and white. There are many different Obamas as he "evolves", flip flops, lies, distorts, etc. Candidate Obama Version 2008 is the Obama I was referencing that I agree with. I disagree with most of the other Obamas.
Im arguing that the world is black and white by saying it isnt black and white ????????????????????





Quote:
So you are admitting that you are deliberately distorting? So because Obama wins liar of the year you feel as if you can distort and lie all you want to?
Nope, we are debating specific facets of an argument.

If you are going to debate total deficits and not budget deficits, then you should be comparing total deficits of every year and not just budget deficits on the Bush years to total deficits of the Obama years.

You are the one who is distorting, you do the exact same thing when you argue the unemployment rate and you compare the "real" unemployment rate(U6) of the Obama years to the Official unemployment rate(U3) of the Bush years instead of comparing u6 to u6 or u3 to u3.

[
Quote:
B]Hey, my neighbor had a "surplus" in his budget, too bad the vacation he took to Jamaica and the boat he bought wasn't in the budget and he racked up massive debt with that "functional BS budget."[/b]
again, its fine if you want to make that argument, but you need to do it from both sides and at a time when we are actually comparing the 2.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-04-2015, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Florida
77,013 posts, read 47,464,680 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by siobhandem View Post
Both Bush and Obama are to blame, IMO.
Actually Congress has the power of the purse. Out of all the Bush/Obama years, GOP has been in control of Congress 10 out of 14 years. If you do not like the spending, then vote for different Congress reps.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-04-2015, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,452 posts, read 16,432,671 times
Reputation: 5967
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Actually Congress has the power of the purse. Out of all the Bush/Obama years, GOP has been in control of Congress 10 out of 14 years. If you do not like the spending, then vote for different Congress reps.
they wont, there were only 58 new congressmen in 2014, and 41 incumbents retired, 3 incumbents lost in primaries.

thats means there was really only a net gain of about 8 new congressmen. i say that because some of those districts are so one sided that the former congressman's aide or even wife won in landslides. Different face, but basically the same person.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-04-2015, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Florida
77,013 posts, read 47,464,680 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
they wont, there were only 58 new congressmen in 2014, and 41 incumbents retired, 3 incumbents lost in primaries.

thats means there was really only a net gain of about 8 new congressmen. i say that because some of those districts are so one sided that the former congressman's aide or even wife won in landslides. Different face, but basically the same person.
I think the biggest problem is the fact that people simply do not know how the government works. They think everything is about the presidents, and they couldn't be more wrong.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-04-2015, 12:29 PM
 
48,505 posts, read 96,659,793 times
Reputation: 18304
No; the so called peace dividend was not money to be spent. If one look carefully at projections the deficit will rise in coming years ;not go down. Neither did anything to lower it in reality. Just as when crisis occurs in coming years in entitlements both will point fingers at the other.Rethoric speeches is not action which is what both do when they don't have the power to do anything. When they do have the power they fail to act as Obama has and Bush previously did.to be fair; neither could get elected if they real did anything about it with the dependence of average voter. Its like austerity in Europe; it wasn't cutting the deficit spending it was reductions in projected spending increases. The debt to GDP has still climbed there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-04-2015, 12:45 PM
 
Location: honolulu
1,729 posts, read 1,532,362 times
Reputation: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I think the biggest problem is the fact that people simply do not know how the government works. They think everything is about the presidents, and they couldn't be more wrong.
great post..... does the GOV actually work? atleast for the people .... for the common good? Should I say for the common good of the people?

NO!!! it... They don't
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-04-2015, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Long Island
32,816 posts, read 19,424,602 times
Reputation: 9618
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Actually Congress has the power of the purse. Out of all the Bush/Obama years, GOP has been in control of Congress 10 out of 14 years. If you do not like the spending, then vote for different Congress reps.
uhm... congress is made up of two houses... house of reps, and the house of the senate

dems controlled the senate 2001, 2006 through present
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top