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Old 01-05-2015, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Someplace Wonderful
5,178 posts, read 3,906,445 times
Reputation: 2555

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
i say it depends on how much skin the owners have in the game. for instance the cowboys built their own stadium. back in the day, the dodgers built their own stadium when they moved to LA.

i say if a team wants a new stadium, they need to pony up at least half of the cost of the stadium, and any money the taxpayers put in should be offset by building the stadium to allow the public to use it when the team isnt playing there, or during the off season.
In a free market economy, investors would be building venues to serve professional sports and other event venues and try to operate them profitably.

The problem is that the largest special interest group in America is the professional sports (including NCAA) fans. Liberals and conservatives alike are happy to vote for taxpayer money to subsidize their interests. Therein lies the problem.
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Old 01-05-2015, 03:22 PM
 
48,516 posts, read 84,056,192 times
Reputation: 18051
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
It could be argued that having a sports franchise provides the same type of public benefits as something like a museum or concert hall.

Like I said, I'd never vote to pay for one.
True ;it depends on what one likes. Many public tings are just the same. It can bring in lots of dollars that others can't in return .
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Old 01-05-2015, 03:28 PM
 
2,252 posts, read 2,096,932 times
Reputation: 1510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
Short memory?
that's not a complaint, it's a QUESTION.
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Old 01-05-2015, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Vermont
10,324 posts, read 11,250,564 times
Reputation: 14219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
So your argument is reduced to the economic data is "faulty" because you say so...

If a stadium cost $1 billion and exists for 50 years, it has to have a $1 billion net economic benefit to taxpayers to be a positive "investment." That's easy.
"That's easy"?

Yes it is. You're never going to see one of these stadiums providing ROI for fifty years. There are only 8 NFL stadiums built before 1990 and 13 opened in 2000 or later. What you or I would probably call a new stadium gets torn down before it's paid for and the taxpayers get stuck for the costs of demolition, all the existing debt, and the costs of a new stadium.

Pretty hard for a stadium demolished in thirty years to keep paying returns for fifty.
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Old 01-05-2015, 03:46 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
2,819 posts, read 2,879,122 times
Reputation: 1246
Not just no, hell NO!
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Old 01-05-2015, 03:58 PM
 
3,674 posts, read 2,340,225 times
Reputation: 1974
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
I oppose them. The owners should pay for them. The league can help if it wants to.
From what I understand, the best offer St Louis presented required $575 Million in owner contributions towards the Edward Jones Dome upgrades. For $800 the Rams owner gets a new stadium in LA and owns it. You are right, no taxpayer $$ should be involved, in this case that makes LA the better deal.
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Old 01-05-2015, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
5,886 posts, read 4,196,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
It uses a disingenuous argument.

They lose $4 billion in subsidies to the plutocrats. Like I said, Dallas' economy is going to benefit more than $1 billion over the life of that stadium. If the World Cup ends up in Texas Stadium (which it very well may in the future), it makes that back overnight.

Whether people like it or not.. stadiums are infrastructure. Nonessential infrastructure, but still infrastructure.
How many stadiums make it that long anymore? After 10-12 years most teams seem to be itching for a new stadium or they threaten to relocate to Los Angeles (if they're an NFL team). Turner Field in Atlanta will be 20 years old when the Braves move to Sun Trust Park (or whatever they've named their new park) in Cobb County.

The NFL had a revenue of $9B in 2012 and they are a tax free institution. They can afford their own stadiums. The owners of sports franchises are billionaires and the athletes are millionaires. Public funding of stadiums is an egregious example of corporate welfare.
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Old 01-05-2015, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,794 posts, read 14,301,135 times
Reputation: 7950
A thousand times no. If a swarm of mosquitoes threatened to leave my back yard unless I did something for them, my response: buh-bye.

We built three tax funded stadiums here in Seattle in the last 20 years, and there is an effort to build a fourth for NBA and NHL. Taxpayers are still paying off the Kingdome, which was imploded about 15 years ago. Yet the state does not have enough money to care for the mentally ill, pay for education, or enforce laws against sex or property crimes.

But we did have $1 billion to shovel into the lap of the world's 6th richest man for his new football stadium to replace the Kingdome.

The thing is absurd, and perhaps a sign that America is headed the way of the Roman Empire.
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Old 01-05-2015, 04:38 PM
 
12,050 posts, read 5,732,635 times
Reputation: 7060
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
i say it depends on how much skin the owners have in the game. for instance the cowboys built their own stadium. back in the day, the dodgers built their own stadium when they moved to LA.

i say if a team wants a new stadium, they need to pony up at least half of the cost of the stadium, and any money the taxpayers put in should be offset by building the stadium to allow the public to use it when the team isnt playing there, or during the off season.
I live in a City with 2 Major Sports Stadiums -- both built with some Taxpayer Money, both voted on by the citizens. The first was a Baseball Stadium, 1/2 cent Tax with a payoff time of 20 years. I voted for that one and it was paid off in 10 years .... total $135 Billion.

Next up was the Football Stadium - 1/2 cent Tax with a payoff in 30 years - I voted no on that one.
The Citizens voted for it 55% Yes, 45% No. The cost on this one was $650 Million, BUY the Taxpayer/City obligation was CAPPED at $325 Million ..... the Stadium ended up costing $1.2 Billion (and counting). It was a handshake deal and the City gets a percentage of Parking fees (which run $50-75 per car) and $500,000 per year in naming rights fees. The Stadium Owner also contracted to spend a couple of Million a year in "City Enhancement/Entertainment" or something like that ... I know we have a lot of renovation with a bunch of stuff going on all the time.

Tax Revenue is UP, way UP - the bond pay-off was 10 years ahead of schedule according to the last report I read. New Hotels (and more in the planning), new Restaurants and they are always full - everything is hopping because that Stadium is always doing something and bringing people here. Over 10,000 news jobs so far. They get 2,000-3,000 people who tour the Stadium EVERY DAY it is open for tours. They host everything from Home/Garden Shows to Tractor Pulls. The 50th Anniversary of the Country Music Awards will be here in April with an estimated 60,000 people. The first College Football Championship is scheduled soon and the World Cup may have been the biggest crowd ever. High Schools games play often, the Rodeo, a National Bowling Tournament and the Biggest crowd to ever attend an NBA All Star Game - about 90,000. I have no idea what a "Monster Jam" is, but it's on the schedule, along with the standard Major Concerts and some sort of American Gymnastics Cup.

All in all ..... I would have to say it all depends on the area (we have 3.5 Million people locally to support these 2 Stadiums), heavy dependence on how good the City Government is (ours is incredibly good) and whether the Stadium is run by one of the best and craziest promoters in the World.

It could turn out to be a good deal. I like it so far and it's worth the $14.50-$27 to take the tour.
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Old 01-05-2015, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Long Island
33,153 posts, read 14,000,573 times
Reputation: 7092
Absolutely not, ask Miami how they feel about the new Marlins baseball stadium, a complete giveaway. The new Jets/Giants football stadium was funded by seat licenses for the most part and they were not cheap, if the teams won't pay let the seat holders if they are crazy enough.

The old football stadium at the NJ Meadowlands that was built 30 years ago is still being paid off, voters have to be crazy to approve public funding of sports stadiums, are they not a business, can they not afford it?
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