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I could easily post.. citizen seriously injures police officer ... which happens many times a day
Doesn't quite have the same jazzy snap does it....
Sometimes police can go up against some real monsters like the 96 year old monster in the picture below shown with his wife in 2005.
Seems John got uppity and didn't show enough respect.
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When John Wrana was a young man, fit and strong and fighting in World War II with the U.S. Army Air Corps, did he ever think he'd end this way?
Just a few weeks shy of his 96th birthday, in need of a walker to move about, cops coming through the door of his retirement home with a Taser and a shotgun.
The old man, described by a family member as "wobbly" on his feet, had refused medical attention. The paramedics were called. They brought in the Park Forest police.
First they tased him, but that didn't work. So they fired a shotgun, hitting him in the stomach with a bean-bag round. Wrana was struck with such force that he bled to death internally, according to the Cook County medical examiner.
"The Japanese military couldn't get him at the age he was touchable, in a uniform in the war. It took 70 years later for the Park Forest police to do the job," Wrana's family attorney, Nicholas Grapsas, a former prosecutor, said in an interview with me Thursday.
Members of the SWAT team said John had a knife but nobody with the staff ever saw one. But even an imaginary knife kills and what chance would six big, brave SWAT team members with full body armor and shields have against a teetering old man wildly swinging his cane around?
If anything cops needed more fire power and maybe they should have brought in one of the excess military vehicles from Iraq using the fire power of quad 50 caliber machine guns to bring this old man to his knees!
when the officer was behind the man, and by the way, from the beginning the man, back mouthed the officer, and refused to allow the officer to hand cuff him, so what does he do, he pushes and falls back on the officer, they both roll to the ground, so the officer tazed him....and I would have to.
Wha ha ha, what a clown, the cop did the right thing event though he was fired for doing the wrong thing, because... because.... because I said so.... because cops should be able to abuse senior citizens and who ever else they want because they are cops..... and cops are god.... and that is all there is to it....
What a laugh..... cops are the biggest criminals there are and they deserve no respect from the citizens.
Members of the SWAT team said John had a knife but nobody with the staff ever saw one. But even an imaginary knife kills and what chance would six big, brave SWAT team members with full body armor and shields have against a teetering old man wildly swinging his cane around?
If anything cops needed more fire power and maybe they should have brought in one of the excess military vehicles from Iraq using the fire power of quad 50 caliber machine guns to bring this old man to his knees!
Less than 1 percent of police officers in the US are involved in some act of misconduct.. anything from brutality to petty crimes..
Should it be zero.. in a perfect world absolutely.. do I want to defend some rogue dirtbag soon to be ex cop who was corrupt or committed a criminal act... no.. will I defend the actions of a copper who was correct in their application of force.. absolutely
Compared to the population police serve they commit VASTLY less amounts of crime and violations of the law...
Police are still excellent representatives of good living with community values.. no matter what stories the bashers want to post up.. and some of those are horrible and indefensible (and we do those dirtbags in every way possible)
Most polls find that even the bashers think that the police where they live do a good job while the police elsewhere are the evil wicked mean and nasty lot.. as far as the anarchists..occupy types.. liberal pukes.. who think any government is bad.. they will never see the statistics
So.. for you bashers
Whats your plan for maintaining order?.. how would you change your police?..what laws would you choose not to enforce? how would you interact with someone who tells you to go take a flying leap when you are citing them?
Which one of you could do a better job.. if so.. how?
Less than 1 percent of police officers in the US are involved in some act of misconduct.. anything from brutality to petty crimes..
Maybe, but it's not a fact just because you say so.
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Should it be zero.. in a perfect world absolutely.. do I want to defend some rogue dirtbag soon to be ex cop who was corrupt or committed a criminal act... no.. will I defend the actions of a copper who was correct in their application of force.. absolutely
You haven't commented on the Cleveland situation yet.
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Compared to the population police serve they commit VASTLY less amounts of crime and violations of the law...
Maybe, relatively. It's pretty rare that I see a police officer do the speed limit.
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Police are still excellent representatives of good living with community values.. no matter what stories the bashers want to post up.. and some of those are horrible and indefensible (and we do those dirtbags in every way possible)
Most polls find that even the bashers think that the police where they live do a good job while the police elsewhere are the evil wicked mean and nasty lot.. as far as the anarchists..occupy types.. liberal pukes.. who think any government is bad.. they will never see the statistics
So.. for you bashers
Whats your plan for maintaining order?.. how would you change your police?..what laws would you choose not to enforce? how would you interact with someone who tells you to go take a flying leap when you are citing them?
Which one of you could do a better job.. if so.. how?
We have answered this over and over and over. When a police officer gets found guilty of something like using excessive force the settlement should come at least in part out of his benefits. For some of us, all we want is for police officers be held to the same laws as the citizens. I also don't want to see those who are fired, forced out or whatever of one force be able to go to another force and get hired.
I want better training in things like recognizing mental illness or handicaps in others and the way those are dealt with.
Maybe, but it's not a fact just because you say so.
You haven't commented on the Cleveland situation yet.
Um... with the facts as I know them
well criminally we will have to see what comes out of it. But on first blush may be legally justified but still be held liable for something other than murder or manslaughter... but its a stretch and I think on appeal if he was convicted for anything would get thrown out
Civily there will be an substantial award in my opinion against the city and officer.. but it will settle long before that
Department did a horrible job on a background,, their policy was not what from what I know to be like what most police agencies and backgrounds are... we contact employers and ask questions more than what is and isn't in a personnel jacket
Personnel records are very strictly controlled by law as to what can and cannot be in them.. in this case it sounds like a total screw up was made
Maybe, relatively. It's pretty rare that I see a police officer do the speed limit.
Um.. the public doesnt realize that an "E" plate means exempt from the rules of the road.. to catch traffic violators routinely means speeding.. as is coming to your house when three crooks are raping your wife and sticking something up your rectum.... you might want a policecar a little faster than donut mode
The operative word is.. with due regard for the "safety and care of others".. and since this can be pierced fairly easily civily is something we try to be careful doing
Several cities have tried no pursuit policies.. those have been a disaster for citizens.. our policy is highly restrictive,, very specific,, and requires multiple levels of monitoring by others real time..
Generally when Im in routine mode I try as much as I can not to violate the vehicle code.. and I never knowingly do so off duty (which is one of the reasons I run a dash cam in my POV)
And why for traffic I give breaks when the act isnt unsafe..or blatantly stupid.. or the person receiving their education isnt overtly unwilling to receive and is being a total asshat (some days I can be more lenient than others..Im human) I also write every woman as a matter of course because I dont want any sexual harrassment beef without solid reasons for the stop.. but this is my personal way of doing business based upon years of experience)...
We have answered this over and over and over.
(And what you dont understand is the law and reality over and over)
When a police officer gets found guilty of something like using excessive force the settlement should come at least in part out of his benefits. For some of us, all we want is for police officers be held to the same laws as the citizens.
#### Citizens dont lose their retirements do they?..if so please expand upon this ????
I also don't want to see those who are fired, forced out or whatever of one force be able to go to another force and get hired.
(Agree... try to get everyone to cooperate,, thank your afl-cio)
There has been legislation to this effect.. so far defeated by the unions and by the courts and case law
Should your benefits be taken away when you commit a crime? I mean its your money,, its no longer your employers>... and if so.. under what circumstances... if there is some kind of civil award for misconduct then the plaintiff could attach these benefits...
Im one the fence on this one,, if they are a solid crook then they should have to pay anything and everything for their crimes.. might be a deterrent for coppers who cross over to dirtbags
I want better training in things like recognizing mental illness or handicaps in others and the way those are dealt with.
Well... not sure HOW much more training on the mentally ill (EDP's) would help.. it is already mandated by law in the academy..I believe its 24 hours,, thats a lot of time... and in recurrent training I think its 8 hours per year.. and thats a lot of time,,.. As is use of force and the whole aspect of descalation and alternative methods verbal judo.. etc...
When will society take responsibility for the mentally ill instead of dumping them on the street.. more and more...
Dealing with EDPs has a high probablility of unpredictible behavior and potential violence... EDPs when non compliant.. off their meds.. of just plain psycotic feel no pain from complaince holds and many times escalation of the force matrix occurs very rapidly..
Should we just drive away?... and let you handle them.. or just let them be when you call for the umteenth time to handle them,,,
I had "mom" who lived on a bench at a major intersection.. she loved to pick up her dress in rush hour traffic and crap on the the road in front of startled citizens..she would generate numerous calls for service... she was a frequent flyer... psychotic 200 pound bundle of love... and sometimes violent..someones mother.. I probably dealt with her fifty times... numerous 5150 interventions,, they would give her a glass of juice and let her go... numerous city social service interventions.. give her a bus pass and let her go.. I would even give her my money so she would go away for a day..she would always come back.. one day she was gone.. I think she died.. we had many conversations about how that corner was hers..
Mom is just an example of our system
I contacted a male sleeping on a bus bench (violation of a county ordinance.. chickenpoop I know) when I saw several people standing.. several of them looked like tired mexican housekeepers who had been on their feet all day and Im thinking hey,, this is rude and plain sucks).. so I stop and get him up...
Total scrote.. not homeless.. just a dirtbag.. and before I get flamed we can ALL tell what a dirtbag is and how they act towards others... so he gets patted down.. and I begin to talk with him respectfully..while my partner runs him.. female citizen comes up and starts screaming at me about how Im harassing this poor man and what a nazi I am...
So.. after she chews on me for a minute I say.. "lady.. what do you want me to do with this guy.. tell me your address and he can stay in front of your house if you want to care for him" I said it quietly and without emotion..... of course as you would expect this lit her off and she stomped off to call the station and complain .. which of course meant a full blown internal investigation.. to which I was truthful and nothing happened.. but an example of daily BS to deal with from bashers. It will stay in my file forever.. it is the cost of doing police business.. we arent robots and our ****ometers arent limitless.. nor should they be
End of story.. dirtbag comes back with a no bail kindnap warrant.. tells us how we treated him with respect and how he knew he was wanted.. told the internal investigator the lady was a nutjob.. he totally got it when I said .. hey.. look you cant sleep there it was rude,, and the maids who worked an entire day and were tired couldnt even sit down... I could have made him fight me in a second by the way I spoke with him.. but we get so much training and focus on how to talk to people and NOT get in a fight it comes out naturally when Im working.. I think it does for everyone where I work... they would be crazy not to embrace it.. and a road to a short and unsuccessful career
Now with thousands upon thousands of our brave service people coming back from war falling through the cracks we regualrly deal with EDP/PTSD service members.. people who know how to kill.. thats always fun.. think ANY copper wants to use force on them.. someone who has served our country... no way.. do we have to,, yea,, it sucks but we do..
You might be interested in what values we are expected to maintain not as robotbots but as humans:
This is my department.. I dont speak for others
We are trained to give respect to all... which is why our mission statement is "A tradition of service"
Our Creed:
My goals are simple, I will always be painfully honest, work as hard as I can, learn as much as I can and hopefully make a difference in people’s lives.
Our Mission:
Lead the fight to prevent crime and injustice. Enforce the law fairly and defend the rights of all, including the incarcerated.
Partner with the people we serve to secure and promote safety in our communities.
Our Core Values:
As a leader in the #####################, I commit myself to honorably perform my duties with respect for the dignity of all people, integrity to do right and fight wrongs, wisdom to apply common sense and fairness in all I do and courage to stand against racism, sexism, anti-Semitism, homophobia and bigotry in all its forms.
For us this isnt just words it is what we are expected to live be everyday.. and those who cant keep up.. leave,, get fired.. or just go away unable to handle it. Most coppers who cant cut it leave within the first five years of their career... I always gave my trainees McDonald applications with their training packet.. and told them.. at any time you can walk away honorably into this other job no harm no foul.. but if you dont cut it in training my job is to recycle and potentially get you fired.. after all you are a reflection of me and the department... I think I am not alone in this.. all my fellow co workers feel this way
When someone strays.. and they do for many excuses.. and they are only excuses.. they have forgotten their core values.. and I want them gone as quickly as possible...regardless of what union and legal protections say.. but thats beyond my paygrade
No complaining..just reality. Socialogists say police live four years of life experiences compared to regular joe citizens.. makes me very old now. Im ready to pull the plug.. a second time.. I wont be bored this time.. Im ready to pull the plug because I dont like what society has turned into.. when I was a young copper all I cared about was the world and making it better.. as a middle aged copper all I cared about was not getting hurt (more) or sued (more)...now Im an old copper and all I care about really is my family...
Years from now when we have perhaps perfected less than lethal weapons ... and computers will make deadly force decisions as robotbots pull you over or respond to your calls for service.. and "defective" people will be genetically engineered out of the gene pool....
Wont that be a world to admire..... yea... Ill be long dust...
Last edited by notmeofficer; 01-18-2015 at 10:15 AM..
Well... not sure HOW much more training on the mentally ill (EDP's) would help.. it is already mandated by law in the academy..I believe its 24 hours,, thats a lot of time... and in recurrent training I think its 8 hours per year.. and thats a lot of time,,.. As is use of force and the whole aspect of descalation and alternative methods verbal judo.. etc...
When will society take responsibility for the mentally ill instead of dumping them on the street.. more and more...
Dealing with EDPs has a high probablility of unpredictible behavior and potential violence... EDPs when non compliant.. off their meds.. of just plain psycotic feel no pain from complaince holds and many times escalation of the force matrix occurs very rapidly..
Should we just drive away?... and let you handle them.. or just let them be when you call for the umteenth time to handle them,,,
I've argued over and over that we need to have this very discussion. How will we deal with the mentally ill? I absolutely believe we should.
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Now with thousands upon thousands of our brave service people coming back from war falling through the cracks we regualrly deal with EDP/PTSD service members.. people who know how to kill.. thats always fun.. think ANY copper wants to use force on them.. someone who has served our country... no way.. do we have to,, yea,, it sucks but we do..
I've also argued many times that they shouldn't be going over there in the first place to get broke.
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You might be interested in what values we are expected to maintain not as robotbots but as humans:
This is my department.. I dont speak for others
As long as we both understand that.
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we are expected to live be everyday.. and those who cant keep up.. leave,, get fired.. or just go away unable to handle it.
Or get hired in Cleveland.
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When someone strays.. and they do for many excuses.. and they are only excuses.. they have forgotten their core values.. and I want them gone as quickly as possible...regardless of what union and legal protections say.. but thats beyond my paygrade
And when it doesn't happen that way we get these threads and people upset.
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