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A few prefaces: first of all, I understand that not everyone on the left is sympathetic towards Islam. Second, this thread isn't an attempt to troll; it is an honest question I have wondered for years. Third, this thread is not intended to be a place to debate the merits of various religions. My purpose is to solicit the opinion of people self-identified to the left of center as to how and why they have developed their positions regarding Islam.
It is your mistake to assume that the left is defending Islam mindlessly. The defense is against those who thrive on divided societies. This applies equally to both sides, those using the religion and those who hate the religion and/or Muslims. Mindless are those who promote hatred, either using their own religion or that of others.
And if you really want a logical discussion, keep specific religion out of it, because the argument applies regardless of religion. This is a clash of sides that detests multi-cultural, secular societies, pretty much a global issue. In the process, the right wingers (and I'm not talking of the extreme kind, rather the sane ones) seem to forget that specific elements not everybody is a culprit, and marginalizing a populace based on differences (be it skin color, religion, ethnicity or whatever), is idiotic. That is where people like me feel the need to step in.
A few prefaces: first of all, I understand that not everyone on the left is sympathetic towards Islam. Second, this thread isn't an attempt to troll; it is an honest question I have wondered for years. Third, this thread is not intended to be a place to debate the merits of various religions. My purpose is to solicit the opinion of people self-identified to the left of center as to how and why they have developed their positions regarding Islam.
Why is it that the political left is often so sympathetic to Islam? From the research I have done about Islam (several college courses including three semesters of Arabic, numerous books, documentaries and being a news junky) the political left and Islam have virtually nothing in common. In fact, many of the tenets of Islam are diametrically opposed to the values held by the left (homosexuality, women's rights, pacifism vs. violence, the role of religion in government, etc.). When there is an issue in the news that pits Islam against Christianity or Judaism, the left sides with Islam the vast majority of the time.
The left has condemned the Paris tragedy, but these condemnations usually include qualifiers about how not all Muslims are bad (which we already know) or how not all terrorists are Muslims (even though the VAST majority of modern terrorists are Muslims). Instead of talking constructively about ways to reduce Islamic fanaticism, liberal media outlets seem to spend more time sympathizing with a group that perpetrates violence in response the the values the left holds most dear.
All insight is appreciated. As someone that is not left-wing, this is something that completely baffles me.
I did not read any responses, but it's because people on the left believe in the Liberties afforded us in the US Constitution. We believe that all men and women ARE created equal, and we believe that a double standard is rarely if ever justified.
One thing that jumped out in your OP is your paragraph that starts with the Paris Tragedy. You made a comment that is very common among those in the right, and is one of the things that puts people in a position of defense. That is that you presented condemnation of one event, and stereotyping of an entire group of people as an either/or proposition. As if those are the only two options, and one must be picked. The fact is that the left has condemned the Paris tragedy, as have the VAST majority of Muslims. It is important to put those qualifiers out there, because there is a significant sect of our population who frames opinions in such a way that it must be stated (for omission could be considered agreement).
I'm also Jewish by birth. I think I am very sensitive to the way Muslims are treated because the trends I see in the USA right now are very reminiscent of how the Holocaust started. I'm not comparing the right to Hitler, so please don't even go there. What I am saying is that in times of economic hurt, or threats to our liberties, people look for explanations. When they scapegoat an entire sector of the population, and when people start believing those stereotypes, it sets the stage for history to repeat itself.
As a Jew, and as a "lefty", I'm at odds with Islam in a lot of ways, but as an American and as a free thinker, I can't condemn an entire community for the actions of a few, and I owe it to them (and to myself) to make efforts to distinguish between a few bad apples who may not represent the greater group at all.
I tried to answer your question honestly, and without throwing stones. That is why (from my perspective) "we" do it....
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. They are against Christians and Jews. So is islam.
As much as they see Christianity squelching their rights Islam would really take away their rights. Their damnation of Christianity and support of Islam seem backwards.
as a free thinker, I can't condemn an entire community for the actions of a few,
Quite a few posters have made this point, but I have to disagree w/ it. The problems stem not so much as a few bad apples, but from the central tenets of Islam, for example the dictum that apostasy is punishable by death:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quran
But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them
Or forced conversion:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quran
fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them...
As a friend of mine puts it, the 'moderate' Muslims who reject acts of carnage, subjugation of women, etc, are 'backsliders' who have departed from the true faith. Perhaps Muslims can find a way to leave behind the bloodthirsty aspects of their faith, as Jews have done long ago. Christians (I am not one) never really had much of a problem with that, since their central tenets always led them back to non-coercion, free will, and the primacy of individual volition ('ye must be born again').
It has been 1400 years since the time of Muhammad, and there is little sign of a reformation of Islam. Hangings of gays, murders of artists, sexual slavery and beheadings in the most macabre form imaginable are still the norm for Islam.
I'm also Jewish by birth. I think I am very sensitive to the way Muslims are treated because the trends I see in the USA right now are very reminiscent of how the Holocaust started. I'm not comparing the right to Hitler, so please don't even go there. What I am saying is that in times of economic hurt, or threats to our liberties, people look for explanations. When they scapegoat an entire sector of the population, and when people start believing those stereotypes, it sets the stage for history to repeat itself.
As a Jew, and as a "lefty", I'm at odds with Islam in a lot of ways, but as an American and as a free thinker, I can't condemn an entire community for the actions of a few, and I owe it to them (and to myself) to make efforts to distinguish between a few bad apples who may not represent the greater group at all.
I tried to answer your question honestly, and without throwing stones. That is why (from my perspective) "we" do it....
I agree with a LOT OF this. ^^^ Very compassionate and fair post.
The fact is that a random group, a very small percentage of certain group have done something that has in some way affected, whether directly or indirectly, a huge amount of people in the world. I think it is human nature for people to be scared of the unknown.
I think it is important to realize that terrorists do not act like "normal" Muslim people. They act like fanatical cultists. I have combat Marine friends told me all the time that brave Muslims saved their lives in battle field. I have combat Marine friends who have told me all the time that many Muslim are friendly, good, polite people who have very big hearts. But, there are a lot of terrorists who hide among regular Muslims. So it is difficult to distinguish between good Muslims and bad Muslims. But war has taught many of my combat Marine friends to stop hating all Muslims. They are not all the same.
I think knowledge is power. I don't know if Muslim is a religion of peace or not. But it is hard to convince me that all Muslims are bad. It is also hard to convince me that all the "moderate" Muslims are really that innocent.
Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 01-13-2015 at 03:20 PM..
A few prefaces: first of all, I understand that not everyone on the left is sympathetic towards Islam. Second, this thread isn't an attempt to troll; it is an honest question I have wondered for years. Third, this thread is not intended to be a place to debate the merits of various religions. My purpose is to solicit the opinion of people self-identified to the left of center as to how and why they have developed their positions regarding Islam.
Why is it that the political left is often so sympathetic to Islam? From the research I have done about Islam (several college courses including three semesters of Arabic, numerous books, documentaries and being a news junky) the political left and Islam have virtually nothing in common. In fact, many of the tenets of Islam are diametrically opposed to the values held by the left (homosexuality, women's rights, pacifism vs. violence, the role of religion in government, etc.). When there is an issue in the news that pits Islam against Christianity or Judaism, the left sides with Islam the vast majority of the time.
The left has condemned the Paris tragedy, but these condemnations usually include qualifiers about how not all Muslims are bad (which we already know) or how not all terrorists are Muslims (even though the VAST majority of modern terrorists are Muslims). Instead of talking constructively about ways to reduce Islamic fanaticism, liberal media outlets seem to spend more time sympathizing with a group that perpetrates violence in response the the values the left holds most dear.
All insight is appreciated. As someone that is not left-wing, this is something that completely baffles me.
I'm liberal and I agree with you. I don't get it either. I'm with Bill Maher on this topic.
A rising Muslim population scares me, as a gay man. Even moderates are more in line with the far Christian right on the topic of gay rights.
A few prefaces: first of all, I understand that not everyone on the left is sympathetic towards Islam. Second, this thread isn't an attempt to troll; it is an honest question I have wondered for years. Third, this thread is not intended to be a place to debate the merits of various religions. My purpose is to solicit the opinion of people self-identified to the left of center as to how and why they have developed their positions regarding Islam.
Why is it that the political left is often so sympathetic to Islam? From the research I have done about Islam (several college courses including three semesters of Arabic, numerous books, documentaries and being a news junky) the political left and Islam have virtually nothing in common. In fact, many of the tenets of Islam are diametrically opposed to the values held by the left (homosexuality, women's rights, pacifism vs. violence, the role of religion in government, etc.). When there is an issue in the news that pits Islam against Christianity or Judaism, the left sides with Islam the vast majority of the time.
The left has condemned the Paris tragedy, but these condemnations usually include qualifiers about how not all Muslims are bad (which we already know) or how not all terrorists are Muslims (even though the VAST majority of modern terrorists are Muslims). Instead of talking constructively about ways to reduce Islamic fanaticism, liberal media outlets seem to spend more time sympathizing with a group that perpetrates violence in response the the values the left holds most dear.
All insight is appreciated. As someone that is not left-wing, this is something that completely baffles me.
Lack of knowledge about Islam (could be attributed to the fact that so many Leftists are non-religious — they think all religions are equally silly, so they do not bother to find out what Islam is all about)
Political correctness
Fear of stirring up the hornets nest.
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