a serious question about RACE (moved from North Carolina) (education, government, religion)

[Nims]

I am hoping to be able to include a wide circle of diverse people in my group of friends, because obviously friends are the best source of the information I'm looking for. But -- right now, I don't have anyone here where I am living whom I can ask. That's why I started this thread.

I appreciate the answers from those on this thread who have 'been there, done that' and are willing to take my questions at face value. If, for example, you and I are acquaintances on the way to becoming friends and I make an un-thought-out remark that wounds you, will our relationship advance to the point that you will correct me, or are you mentally going to turn your back and write me off as 'another white racist'?

It isn't enough to want to communicate authentically; you have to get the other person(s) to accept your motivation.

So thanks for those who've told me where my ignorance might have gotten me in hot water (example: the fact that I thought 'Negro' was the acceptable term when actually it is offensive!! If I hadn't asked, I'd've been using it!)

[MissShona]

I prefer the term "Black American". I think "African-American" should be reserved for immigrants from Africa and/or their children. To lump us with recent immigrants from Africa is not really fair and negates our cultural differences. Come to think of it, the term "African-American" is also problematic in that recent immigrants from Europe are not called "Euroean-Americans" but rather "French-Americans" or "German-Americans". Yet I have yet to hear the term "Nigerian-American".

However I don't get all bent out of shape if someone wants to use a different term; unless that term is "negro" or "colored" (don't like those terms too much).

[truthhurts]

Originally Posted by Nims

I am hoping to be able to include a wide circle of diverse people in my group of friends, because obviously friends are the best source of the information I'm looking for. But -- right now, I don't have anyone here where I am living whom I can ask. That's why I started this thread.

I appreciate the answers from those on this thread who have 'been there, done that' and are willing to take my questions at face value. If, for example, you and I are acquaintances on the way to becoming friends and I make an un-thought-out remark that wounds you, will our relationship advance to the point that you will correct me, or are you mentally going to turn your back and write me off as 'another white racist'?

It isn't enough to want to communicate authentically; you have to get the other person(s) to accept your motivation.

So thanks for those who've told me where my ignorance might have gotten me in hot water (example: the fact that I thought 'Negro' was the acceptable term when actually it is offensive!! If I hadn't asked, I'd've been using it!)

Nims quick question. Would you have walked into a room of italians and thought it perfectly acceptable to say "Hi how are all you Wops doing?"

Would you have thought it perfectly acceptable to walk into a room full of Jewish people and say "Hi, Juda's (German word for Jew)?"

Would you have walked into a room full of Irish individuals and said "Hi, Micks?"

Would you walk into a room full of fat people and say "Hi obese people?" Technically obese is the PC medical term for Fat people just like Negroid is the Scientific term for Blacks. Walking into a room saying "Hi Negro" would be equally as silly you know?

My point in this is that most of your answers i would assume would have been a resounding "No." Its no different when you're dealing with black people.

Walking into a room and saying "Hi Negros" is probably going to alarm people. While I do take your merit and intentions at face value and feel you're attempting to learn there is a part of me that thinks how the heck could he/she not have known you know?

I'm neither Italian, Irish, Jewish, or Fat, (although that would be funny if i was an italian irish fat black jew haha), but i'm smart enough to know I should not go around using terms for these people that haven't been used in the last 80 years on a regular basis to address them. Sure, I have heard Italians refer to themselves as Gwedos (not sure if that's how you spell it) and i've heard Jews refer to themselves as a "Jew" and I've heard Irish people call themselves Micks, but I would never feel comfortable repeating that to one of them, because I know me saying it to them does not mean the same thing. Now this is in no way an attempt to endorse racial groups using their own negative words with each other as acceptable i think it looks stupid personally for any group that does it, blacks included.

Some of this is less not knowing as much as it is common sense.

[Nims]

Hey, TruthHurts, I smiled when I read your question, 'would you walk into a room....?' I wouldn't address any group with any of those terms because I'd want to lump everyone together and just say 'Hi, everyone!'

I'd rather not have labels, but if you want to ask someone about something specifically related to their group (whether Blacks, women, or chicken-farmers) you have to be able to put a name to the group so you can refer to it with ease.

No, I wouldn't refer to an Italian as a '***,' but my Jewish friends say there is no reason not to refer to them (when a title is needed) as 'Jews' -- and I expect to be corrected on this if there are any Jewish readers in this forum.

Obviously you don't apply a sterotypic label to a group if it will be offensive to them. But -- HOW IS ANYONE SUPPOSED TO KNOW UNLESS THESE THINGS ARE DISCUSSED OPENLY?

[Nims]

I reread your comment, TruthHurts. Maybe it isn't so much my lack of 'common sense' as it is under-exposure to the situations.

I'm sure you've heard that there isn't any such thing as a stupid question if it is asked with the right motivation. It sounds like you are getting a little impatient with me here.

I've been told by blacks that not everyone wants to be called 'black.' (And please, tell me if it should be Capital-B Black??) I am just concerned that I not add to the problems in black/white relations.

Yes, it does seem like an awkward situation when you meet someone new who is a different race and you want to know more about him/her but don't want to put him/her at a disadvantage or make them uncomfortable. There aren't any magc words that will convey 'I mean well' or 'I do not want to offend you.' Smiling helps; courtesy helps. But a lot has to be taken for granted in order for a smooth start to be made.

Maybe I am trying to be super-sensitive to how someone perceives me in an inter-racial situation BUT -- I think if it were I whose great-grandmother had been a slave on your great-grandfather's place, I might be seeing things differently. Maybe I'd be watching for condescension or patronizing or assumptions about me that would match up to some widely-held stereotypes. I think I'd have to have a pretty strong sense of myself and my worth as a person to avoid getting my mind set in advance about what you might mean or say and how I'd respond.

Put yourself in my position, please, and tell me how it'd go?

[Nims]

Twice I've tried to edit comment #74 (about walking into a room and saying, 'Hi ---' to a bunch of Italians, etc.

Twice the word 'wops' has been replaced by '***'. In case it happens again once I post this, it is the derogatory word for Italians that begins with 'W.'

[truthhurts]

Nims, not frustrated with you and you raise a lot of great points. I merely implying making friends with people of different racial backgrounds is no diffrent then making friends with people of different ethnic backgrounds.

Sure like i said i think your merit is fine and I only said part of me feels that way not that i totally feel you're being tongue and cheek with the questions. I think you're being sincere and honest.

Once you actually go out meet people and make friends with families that are like yours or people that are like you, you'll have success.

I guess if I had to say the best word to call a black guy would be by his first name, which meant you took the time to get to know him etc. The best thing to call anyone is by their first name and learning a persons first name is a step in becoming friends with them and understanding them. I agree with you I hate labels in terms of race. I wish they would drop all of the labels in terms of race and call us (citizens) Americans only. Anyway no hard feelings just throwing a few questions out there.

Oh PS once you learn his first name don't refer to him as "The black Steve" or something like that, i have always found that to be rude and all races and ethnicities do it to describe people. Hehe this was very common in both school and college. People would always do that, no not that guy the black kid or no, not that kid the white kid...or if they knew the name dude, see if black Chris wants to go out...or see if white boy Mike wants to go out...i always found it to be a bit annoying and wonderd why most just didn't use a first or last name....lol....

[Manigault]

I gotta tell you. I once did use a derogatory ethnic term by mistake. Although the Irish refer to themselves this way, and there is a beer with this name, it is an insult to call an Irish person a "harp". I only discovered this through embarrassed silence in a conversation in a bar in Boston with an Irish friend. Sometimes you just gotta pick up on the nuances. The Irish guy is still my friend, by the way.

Do you remember when the UK's Irish brigade landed in Iraq? They painted a sign on a wall: "The Micks are here!" I thought that was funny.

[truthhurts]

Maniguilt, as i teenager not understanding the use or definition of the word "street walker" I made the serious mistake of referring to a friend sister at their family table as a smart "street walker." I made it in reference to her knowing her way around town when we went shopping in the city. Shortly after i made the comment conversation came to a silencing halt. Then someone did the uncomfortable laugh and everyone started to laugh. I later learned what it really meant and it was clearly not my intention, but everyone laughed at my little word usage mistake.

[RuralCoastalGuy]

Wow, what started as a perfectly innocent and honestly produced thread is turning out to be a debate and venting session!.

I believe the OP started this thread to ask black folks and those particularly here in North Carolina that grew up living with black folks what terminology she should use to cause black folks to feel comfortable with her.

Personally I don't refer to any of my neighbors referring to their race or color but by therirname. If I told you I just visited Norman down the road and saw Will on the way back while Susan and her husband drove by and waved would you know which of those persons were black...or not?

Also, unfortunately for the OP, the thread was started in the North Carolina forum which is where I first saw it and then the management sent it to political. Perhaps if it was still in NC she would have received her answers without all this rhetoric.

If y'all are wondering what I am the answer is I am an American!