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Old 02-18-2015, 02:20 PM
 
5,913 posts, read 3,183,485 times
Reputation: 4397

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMM05 View Post
Sorry, but your ''finger on the pulse'' radar is badly broken.
K, if you say so... Carry on with your anger.
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Old 02-18-2015, 07:46 PM
 
Location: McKinleyville, California
6,414 posts, read 10,487,842 times
Reputation: 4305
Quote:
Originally Posted by southward bound View Post
Our rights come from our Creator:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights

As has so often been stated (and is obvious) if our rights come from the Government they can be quite easily taken away and, if our Constitution is treated as a living, changing document, then our rights are on shaky ground.

Regarding 'values', if there is no standard, the term is meaningless and anyone can make up their own values, e.g.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-Tw7WhH_aQ
Our rights did not come from some fictitious creator. You and MM seem to think that only those that are religous or straight have values, well you are very wrong and by trying to insinuate that others do not have values, you have proven your values to be lacking compassion.
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Old 02-19-2015, 06:44 AM
 
Location: S.E. US
13,163 posts, read 1,687,867 times
Reputation: 5132
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDragonslayer View Post
Our rights did not come from some fictitious creator. You and MM seem to think that only those that are religous or straight have values, well you are very wrong and by trying to insinuate that others do not have values, you have proven your values to be lacking compassion.
Our Founding Fathers said our rights come from a "fictitious creator"? Why not come out fighting, right off the bat, eh? I'll show some compassion and overlook your sensitivity so we can talk.


All I said is that "values" is a relative term meaning different things to different people. Many values are held in common acrosss many cultures, regardless of religion. Some are held more firmly, some not -- e.g. some values are discarded lightly when they are an inconvenience or obstacle to something else the individual finds desirable.

People with genuine faith will anchor their values to to a rock and remain steadfast whether that is convenient or not. It has nothing to do with compassion or lack thereof.

Compassion does not require, nor = indulgence, acquiescence, or acceptance. This is something both sides should recognize.
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Old 02-19-2015, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
8,346 posts, read 7,041,135 times
Reputation: 2874
Quote:
Originally Posted by southward bound View Post
Our Founding Fathers said our rights come from a "fictitious creator"? Why not come out fighting, right off the bat, eh? I'll show some compassion and overlook your sensitivity so we can talk.


All I said is that "values" is a relative term meaning different things to different people. Many values are held in common acrosss many cultures, regardless of religion. Some are held more firmly, some not -- e.g. some values are discarded lightly when they are an inconvenience or obstacle to something else the individual finds desirable.

People with genuine faith will anchor their values to to a rock and remain steadfast whether that is convenient or not. It has nothing to do with compassion or lack thereof.

Compassion does not require, nor = indulgence, acquiescence, or acceptance. This is something both sides should recognize.
Values and morals change with society. That's the plain truth of the matter. No one religion or creed holds a monopoly on values. Are the changes good? The only indicator of that is time. If the changed values stick, then yes, they're good. If they don't, then they're not. It's been this way since beginning of time. It'll be that way until the end of time. As long as mankind has free will, values and faith will change.
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Old 02-19-2015, 08:18 AM
 
2,345 posts, read 1,669,638 times
Reputation: 779
Quote:
Originally Posted by twinArmageddons View Post
Values and morals change with society. That's the plain truth of the matter. No one religion or creed holds a monopoly on values. Are the changes good? The only indicator of that is time. If the changed values stick, then yes, they're good. If they don't, then they're not. It's been this way since beginning of time. It'll be that way until the end of time. As long as mankind has free will, values and faith will change.
Your assessment is WRONG AND DELUSIONAL. God IS the same, yesterday, Today and Forever. Morals are not a result from man. Anyone who believes ''man'' has ANY answers, is Deceived.
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Old 02-19-2015, 08:24 AM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
24,260 posts, read 14,197,584 times
Reputation: 9895
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMM05 View Post
Your assessment is WRONG AND DELUSIONAL. God IS the same, yesterday, Today and Forever. Morals are not a result from man. Anyone who believes ''man'' has ANY answers, is Deceived.
Even your bible has changes in the rules from god. How can you say god doesn't change when his own rules changed from one testament to the next? Or do you keep all of the OT laws?
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Old 02-19-2015, 08:27 AM
 
Location: North America
14,204 posts, read 12,274,353 times
Reputation: 5565
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMM05 View Post
Your assessment is WRONG AND DELUSIONAL. God IS the same, yesterday, Today and Forever. Morals are not a result from man. Anyone who believes ''man'' has ANY answers, is Deceived.
Yes, they are .
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Old 02-19-2015, 08:29 AM
bUU
 
Location: Florida
12,074 posts, read 10,700,286 times
Reputation: 8798
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
Or do you keep all of the OT laws?
That's one of the most difficult facts for fundamentalist Christians to admit to themselves: That Jesus himself ratified ongoing revelation by effectively having his teachings supersede the Old Testament. If it was good enough for Jesus, it is good enough for all the children of God, and the best reflection of truth is the accumulated effect of all ongoing revelation up to the current day, rather than choosing an arbitrary point 50, 100, 500, 1000 or 2000 years ago and claiming ongoing revelation ended then.
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Old 02-19-2015, 08:30 AM
 
Location: North America
14,204 posts, read 12,274,353 times
Reputation: 5565
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
Even your bible has changes in the rules from god. How can you say god doesn't change when his own rules changed from one testament to the next? Or do you keep all of the OT laws?
They will cite Romans as continued prohibition of Homosexuality.
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Old 02-19-2015, 08:41 AM
 
2,345 posts, read 1,669,638 times
Reputation: 779
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
That's one of the most difficult facts for fundamentalist Christians to admit to themselves: That Jesus himself ratified ongoing revelation by effectively having his teachings supersede the Old Testament. If it was good enough for Jesus, it is good enough for all the children of God, and the best reflection of truth is the accumulated effect of all ongoing revelation up to the current day, rather than choosing an arbitrary point 50, 100, 500, 1000 or 2000 years ago and claiming ongoing revelation ended then.
It's Truly Sad....the confusion. This is a Fact. Most people rationalize everything they want to be the way they want things to be.

Then, spend their entire lives justifying their rationalizations.

But, Thankfully...some very few, Realize the ways of their error, and SEE things much more Clearly, and correctly.
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