U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 01-23-2015, 09:06 PM
 
211 posts, read 137,125 times
Reputation: 57

Advertisements

Bernie Sanders Got Republicans To Make His Argument For Universal Health Care

I hope he runs for president! Would be best president in US history.

 
Old 01-23-2015, 09:31 PM
 
Location: 15 months till retirement and I can leave the hell hole of New Yakistan
25,331 posts, read 14,048,526 times
Reputation: 6506
Quote:
Originally Posted by RebelCreator View Post
Bernie Sanders Got Republicans To Make His Argument For Universal Health Care

I hope he runs for president! Would be best president in US history.
but what Bernie wont tell you.....

if you are a taxpayer you cant afford singlepayer(UHC)

you (the taxpayer) cant afford singlepayer aka uhc

singlepayer ( total government funding(taxpayer) and total government control) is NOT what we need...not if we EXPECT the QUALITY of care

when you look at the COSTS of ACTUAL care (not insurance) and the OVERHEAD costs associated with the care..the cost would be astronomical to cover 320 million people

look at the numbers from our own medicaid (a quazi single payer system),,,last year (fy10) it cost the taxpayers 320 billion dollars, just to cover 30 million people....do the math, to cover 320 million (our population) it would be over 3 trillion (possibly much more when you figure in the fact that seniors are a more costly demographic).......then look at what the IRS says is the number of 1040's filed...115 million (and nearly 50% of them get most if not all their money back)....now take that 3 trillion and divide by the 115 million taxpayers....you get over 25k (actually 28k) in taxes.......can the average taxpayer...the average worker afford that.....I don't think so


and lets look at the some other numbers

the ACTUAL cost just to help americans with Alzheimer's(forgive my spelling) is over 200 billion every year

and let's not forget: Obesity rates among OECD nations increased in recent years, with the highest rate in the U.S. at 34.3% -- which means one in 3 Americans is by definition obese.

number of americans getting cancer (new cases) per year 1.8 million for a total of 19 million people being treated (fighting) each year...each year at least 570,000 die from cancer

number of americans with heart disease: 26.2 million and of those..((Number of visits with heart disease as primary diagnosis: 16 million ))((Number of discharges with heart disease as first-listed diagnosis: 4.2 million))

number of americans in nursing homes: 2 million

More than 25 million Americans have significant vision loss.
(((hmmm more than 25 million americans are blind or going blind.....that's more than Norway, Finland, Denmark, Switzerland, and Austria COMBINED TOTAL population....)))

number of americans with diabetes: 26 million
number of americans with asthma: 20 million....Each day 11 Americans die from asthma.


while some of those may overlap...look at those numbers 19,26,25,26,20...that's 116 million with MAJOR health problem,,costly problems......we will ALWAYS be the largest spender in the world...we have the 3rd highest population in the world (next to china and India) and we have more people (total, not a percentage) with major problems than any other country in Europe.....I just showed you at least 116 million people with cancer, heart, blindness, diabetes, asthma.......that's more than France and great Britain COMBINED for their total populations.


singlepayer would cost between 3-6 trillion yearly (depending on whether it is a 80/20 program like medicare or a 100% program like medicaid) (and depending on how many government DENIAL OF SERVICE there are) and what is covered (minus the usual cosmetic.....and the funny thing is mediciad usually wont even cover braces, because they are considered cosmetic)

we have less than 100 million taxpayers in this country of 320 million people



most people (to include republicans) would support singlepayer....IF....

1. it wouldnt be like the CRAPCARE of the health department clinics (death traps)
2. and there was a fair way of funding it......replacing the personal income tax, the estate tax, the corporate tax with the fair tax (a consumption tax) is about the only way to fund it...but the liberals will never go for it


comparing costs to other countries....kinda apples to oranges

yes our cost are higher...but that is because EVERYTHING is higher

look at the second part of that slide checkup cost 59 (omg its double what it is in Canada)

so what are we saying we should FORCE docotrs and nurse to work for minimum wage. and have offices in huts

when you pay that doctor $59 ,, its not $59 dollars going into his pocket...there are lots of other COSTS

how are you going to control the cost of medical equipment(mri or x-ray machines, etc)??????most xray machine are made in Denmark

how are you going to control the cost of the rising electric bills the doctors/hospitals are facing????

how are you going to control the rising property tax/rent/mortgage that doctors face?????

how are you going to control the cost of supplies(gauze, plaster, silk, rubber, polystyrene( a oil product)?????especially some supplies that aren't even american

how are you going to control the cost of people salaries???? a maximum wage???

how they are going to control the employment costs for Doctors, nurses, technicians, hospital food operators, hospital linen cleaning service, custodial services, medical transcribers........are you going to 'nationalize' every profession that is even remotely connected to medicine????

how are they going to control malpractice INSURANCE COSTS?????

don't you get it... medicine (like anyother SERVICE) costs money,,(,money that our government doesn't have)

want to know A BIG REASON why its lower in those other countries.??? salaries.....a nurse in France(actually most of europe) makes about 1500-1800 a month(in us dollars)..that's 18-20000 a year.....meanwhile according to payscale.com the average Rn makes 40-78,000 in the usa


is that what you want??? do you want to have medical PROFESSIONALS be forced to work for nearly minimum wage



.............I would be all for single payer...except for two things that the "pro singlepayer" people cant answer..I want a GUARENTEE of QUALITY care (not health dept horror clinics)...and the COST (which the prosinglepayer people never address)
 
Old 01-24-2015, 05:10 AM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,881 posts, read 8,661,852 times
Reputation: 8401
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
...not if we EXPECT the QUALITY of care ..the cost would be astronomical to cover 320 million people
So what is your solution to ensure QUALITY care covering 320 million people? Because if you don't have a solution, or if your solution flushes some significant percentage of those people down the toilet, then that's utterly indefensible. Don't criticize flawed ideas when you don't even have one that is at least that worthy. So if you have a better idea, that doesn't flush people other than yourself down the toilet, let's hear it.
 
Old 01-24-2015, 06:35 AM
 
18,273 posts, read 10,374,392 times
Reputation: 13335
*****Crickets*******
 
Old 01-24-2015, 06:58 AM
 
2,394 posts, read 2,062,739 times
Reputation: 1648
Yes taxes will go up but for most citizens but will they go up $10,000 per person which is the cost most people pay per person to cover us for health care? Consider your premiums, deductibles and other out of pocket costs.

Also universal care is the best way to have cost containment as is shown by other countries experience.

The other benefit is it does not tie HC to employment.
 
Old 01-24-2015, 07:06 AM
 
Location: Proxima Centauri
4,815 posts, read 1,987,719 times
Reputation: 5262
Quote:
Originally Posted by RebelCreator View Post
Bernie Sanders Got Republicans To Make His Argument For Universal Health Care

I hope he runs for president! Would be best president in US history.
Bernie Sanders is a great American.

He would be destroyed by the not so liberal media just like Ross Perot, Pat Buchanan, and Howard Dean.
Because like them he is not on board with globalization.
 
Old 01-24-2015, 07:49 AM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,881 posts, read 8,661,852 times
Reputation: 8401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonyafd View Post
Because like them he is not on board with globalization.
Which is why he would be destroyed by the right-wing media as well. Big business cannot abide the lack of access to markets that would stem from limiting access to our own, nor the the lack of access to cheap labor to exploit.
 
Old 01-24-2015, 08:11 AM
 
36,914 posts, read 16,106,584 times
Reputation: 8392
Quote:
Originally Posted by RebelCreator View Post
Bernie Sanders Got Republicans To Make His Argument For Universal Health Care

I hope he runs for president! Would be best president in US history.
Just what we need, ANOTHER Socialist as president! No thanks.
 
Old 01-24-2015, 08:33 AM
 
29,751 posts, read 16,439,768 times
Reputation: 13823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
Just what we need, ANOTHER Socialist as president! No thanks.
I disagree with many of Sanders positions including state run health care, but he is less a socialist than many self proclaimed conservatives.
 
Old 01-24-2015, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Central Illinois -
21,567 posts, read 14,366,558 times
Reputation: 14698
Quote:
Originally Posted by RebelCreator View Post
Bernie Sanders Got Republicans To Make His Argument For Universal Health Care

I hope he runs for president! Would be best president in US history.
You're right, he would. But Americans are too stupid to elect someone as good as this man. Expect another Clinton or Bush.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top