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Oh my god the sheer horror, the humanity.... The ocean heat content has risen by a whopping 0.09C (down to 2000m) in the last 50 years. Off the charts, fish will boil, oceans will turn to steam. .
Back in the Pliocene (when co2 levels were also about 400ppm), the oceans were 3C warmer than today. At this rate of 0.09C in 50 years it's going to be a while to get to Pliocene levels.
I have no time or inclination to dissect your chuck full of straw men "mircea gallop."
All that longwinded blather just comes down to the basic ignorant often repeated illogical claim of "The earth's climate goes through cycles. The climate changed before humans, so therefore the recent changes are just part of a natural cycle". There is zero real understanding of climate science in his posts despite his arrogant posturing. Just a bit of parroting of a couple of talking points from pseudo-skeptic conspiracy sources. Any time I've bothered to debunk some of his obvious false claims and errors, he ignores the facts, ignores questions, tosses smarmy insults, and deflects with a barrage of more nonsense. Not worth the time or effort.... unless someone is feeling bored on a rainy day and has a lot of time to waste.
Make no mistake about it, what is being asserted is a conspiracy by people at NASA and GIS. And anyone who believes that conspiracies do not happen must have missed 9/11, which was a very successful conspiracy perpetrated against our country. Of course that is only one example of many, as in truth, conspiracies happen all the time.
At this point, there can be no doubt that many on the left are conspiring to misrepresent the facts about the Earth's constantly changing climate and to spread alarmist predictions that are not based on reliable scientific evidence, as they know very well.
Remember climate-gate and the various other book-cooking incidents around this topic. The people who are promoting the left's AGW alarmism agenda are not to be trusted. And that very certainly includes the people at NASA and the NOAA.
Almost every denialist argument will eventually devolve into a conspiracy. This is because denialist theories that oppose well-established science eventually need to assert deception on the part of their opponents to explain things like why every reputable scientist, journal, and opponent seems to be able to operate from the same page. In the crank mind, it isn’t because their opponents are operating from the same set of facts, it’s that all their opponents are liars (or fools) who are using the same false set of information.
Oh my god the sheer horror, the humanity.... The ocean heat content has risen by a whopping 0.09C (down to 2000m) in the last 50 years. Off the charts, fish will boil, oceans will turn to steam. .
Back in the Pliocene (when co2 levels were also about 400ppm), the oceans were 3C warmer than today. At this rate of 0.09C in 50 years it's going to be a while to get to Pliocene levels.
...and the sea level was 25m higher.
Not that we need coastal cities or anything.
And the current rate is expected to increase as more ice melts from the ice shelves and feedback loops accelerate the process. The CO2 definitely isn't going anywhere.
These are NASA scientists that are asserting the conspiracy.
And aren't you asserting a conspiracy by sketics to undermine the left's AGW alarmism movement? In fact, you are just as active in promoting conspiracy theories as anyone here on this board.
But the truth is that while all conspiracy theories are not true, many are. And conspiracies, which are multiple people trying to collude covertly together to achieve some end, happen constantly and in great numbers.
Only an unthinking or truly ignorant person would disagree with that.
The problem with this whole thread is that MANY of us are not "denialists". We are well aware that the global climate is changing. Many of us are old enough that we can remember when summers and winters were very different than what we are experiencing now.
Yes, we know, that is "WEATHER", not "CLIMATE"!
Unless, of course, it fits into the "warmer" scenario.
Anyway, what WE want to see is recommendations for mankind adapting to and coping with the inevitable consequences of the changing climate.
OK, the sea level is going to increase somewhere between 2 inches and twenty feet.
What should we be doing to adapt to that change?
OK, some agricultural land will become desert.
What should we be doing to keep that land in production?
OK, we are running out of potable water.
What should we be doing to ensure a plentiful supply of clean water?
We simply don't believe doom and gloom predictions serve any useful purpose.
We want to see REAL solutions to the problems, starting NOW!
We question whether the CO2 reduction plans are real solutions.
We question whether the methane reduction plans are real solutions.
What it really comes down to is that we DENY nothing, and QUESTION everything!
The federal government who is telling me that see levels are rising dramatically just spent billions rebuilding New Orleans. Given the catastrophic models, one would think the Feds would have simply relocated the city while they had the chance. Why didn't they?
These are NASA scientists that are asserting the conspiracy.
And aren't you asserting a conspiracy by sketics to undermine the left's AGW alarmism movement? In fact, you are just as active in promoting conspiracy theories as anyone here on this board.
But the truth is that while all conspiracy theories are not true, many are. And conspiracies, which are multiple people trying to collude covertly together to achieve some end, happen constantly and in great numbers.
Only an unthinking or truly ignorant person would disagree with that.
They were employees, not scientists. They were mostly administrators with no scientific background whatsoever.
Based on the job titles listed in the letter signatures, by my count they include 23 administrators, 8 astronauts, 7 engineers, 5 technicians, and 4 scientists/mathematicians of one sort or another (none of those sorts having the slightest relation to climate science). Amongst the signatories and their 1,000 years of combined professional experience, that appears to include a grand total of zero hours of climate research experience, and zero peer-reviewed climate science papers. You can review the signatories for yourself here.
4 people with a science-related background impresses you? They were also invited to an open debate with qualified scientists and ran for the hills.
The letter was also connected, unsurprisingly, to the Heartland Institute.
And once again, you're making this about politics instead of science. It isn't the 'left's' movement, it is the movement of the global scientific community, and the AMERICAN right has chosen to oppose it. Denialism infiltrated the GOP heavily during the Bush years, probably because of his family connections to the Texas oil barons.
If you separate the politics from the science and stop pretending the only reason people believe in this is because they're stupid or left-wing, you would realize there are thousands of papers published on AGW, greenhouse gases, and the effects on oceans, habitats, etc. There are hundreds of predictions, not all of which are correct but most of which include the eventual strengthening of feedback loops and a continuation of the warming trend.
Go to nature.com and search their database for climate change related articles that are free of political influence. Stop reading the blogs and news and focus only on the articles... the majority will support AGW.
It doesn't HAVE to be a leftist issue... both parties could be trying to come up with solutions in line with their party platforms instead of locking horns in this ridiculous and embarrassing debate over whether science is a hoax or whether God would allow this to happen. If the GOP proposed huge tax breaks for corporations who developed tech to control emissions, for example (we all know tax breaks are the true path to utopia)... that would be an improvement and in the long run probably less disastrous for them politically. They're going to have to change their platform eventually, and the fact that they can cling to it so tightly at this moment in time is mind-boggling.
Finally, there is a difference between believing there's an international conspiracy where thousands and thousands of scientists are intentionally sabotaging their own work because of a political agenda (that apparently they all share)... and accepting that certain openly political PR firms like Heartland have an interest in protecting the financial interests of their clients (oil, petrochemical, GMO). I mean, come on... you don't think their like-minded representation of the tobacco industry makes them at all suspicious? What is it you think Heartland DOES, exactly?
In order to agree with the deniers, you must believe that scientists cannot be trusted, but professional propagandists can. It's an absurdly easy choice to make and yet everyone but a few people on this board seems to have chosen the latter.
Last edited by Spatula City; 01-25-2015 at 09:55 AM..
In order to agree with the deniers, you must believe that scientists cannot be trusted, but professional propagandists can. It's an absurdly easy choice to make and yet everyone but a few people on this board seems to have chosen the latter.
4 people with a science-related background impresses you?
It was also connected, unsurprisingly, to the Heartland Institute.
And once again, you're making this about politics instead of science. It isn't the 'left's' movement, it is the movement of the global scientific community, and the AMERICAN right has chosen to oppose it. Denialism infiltrated the GOP heavily during the Bush years, probably because of his family connections to the Texas oil barons.
If you separate the politics from the science and stop pretending the only reason people believe in this is because they're stupid or left-wing, you would realize there are thousands of papers published on AGW, greenhouse gases, and the effects on oceans, habitats, etc. There are hundreds of predictions, not all of which are correct but most of which include the eventual strengthening of feedback loops and a continuation of the warming trend.
Go to nature.com and search their database for climate change related articles that are free of political influence. Stop reading the blogs and news and focus only on the articles... the majority will support AGW.
It doesn't HAVE to be a leftist issue... both parties could be trying to come up with solutions in line with their party platforms instead of locking horns in this ridiculous and embarrassing debate over whether science is a hoax or whether God would allow this to happen. If the GOP proposed huge tax breaks for corporations who developed tech to control emissions, for example (we all know tax breaks are the true path to utopia)... that would be an improvement and in the long run probably less disastrous for them politically.
Finally, there is a difference between believing there's an international conspiracy where thousands and thousands of scientists are intentionally sabotaging their own work because of a political agenda (that apparently they all share)... and accepting that certain openly political PR firms like Heartland have an interest in protecting the financial interests of their clients (oil, petrochemical, GMO). I mean, come on... you don't think their like-minded representation of the tobacco industry makes them at all suspicious?
In order to agree with the deniers, you must believe that scientists cannot be trusted, but professional propagandists can. It's an absurdly easy choice to make and yet everyone but a few people on this board seems to have chosen the latter.
The administrators hold phd in thermal dynamics,physics, and related scientists.
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