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Well if most people against abortion rights didn't consider access to free, legal, easy-to-get contraception welfare, you might have a point.
But it often seems to be a pet peeve of US anti abortion people, the contraception thing being wefare too.
There is no other choice (and look at all other countries' stats) : the easier/cheapest contraception is and I add, the less judgamental view of sex is in a society, the least abortions a country has. In the contrary, countries that don't pratice that, have more abortions and more teenage pregnancies. (I'm only talking about the occident as widening the debate to the situation of women in Africa for example would be too harsh maybe for sensible people who love life so much)
Of course, it will never be zero. Nor will road accidents stats ever be (same people against abortion "because it is murder" argue - on that exact same page of P&C - that it's horryfing for freedom to fine someone for eating a hamburger while driving when doing so can kill an actual person! It would be funny if it weren't so sad)
Let me tell you a little secret. EVERYONE from everyside wants abortions as down in stats as possible. Just, maybe, not for the same reasons, that's all..
Telling people to shut down and ignore a most profound, deep, inner and millions of centuries older than you can consider, need to have sex (advice known as "keep those legs shut" - don't you know any other sex position, people ) .... is not a solution. Never worked, doesn't work, won't ever work.
Contraception, no shameful education about sex and very little if none financial means to obtain it : results could always be better in an ideal world where no accident happens but it's proven that it works and keeps working !
I can only hear, and respectfully disagree, someone who would be againt abortion but defending sex education at an early age, contraception accessible and free and no judgment on sexuality whatever form (consensual being the only required basis). Then we could probably talk, have still a heated debate and share a beer while doing it, and laughing too I hope.
Otherwise... hypocrite, unrealistic and contradictory.
You are pro-life and want to protect it ? You love your son and/or daughter ? Educate them HOW not to have an abortion and here's an obvious hint in case I wasn't crystal enough clear : talk to them about sex, give them the autonomy to protect themselves an make intelligent decisions, fight for these high schools to give condoms.
Who ever thought a teenager bold enough to go to the school nurse to get a condom was being encouraged to have sex by having that possibility? As if teenagers are always bored anyway, he/she was so bored that day, that they thought "let's try and have sex, I hear they give out free rubbers". If you think that, it might explain that you think abstinence only is an effective teaching. That teeenager HAS ALREADY decided to/ or has already had probably unprotected sex, help him/her not have a difficult thing to face because of it. And pregnancy isn't the hardest, as you all know...
Noone wishes anyone an abortion.
It needs to be legal for multiple factors, the simplest one to state being that women have, do and will have abortions, whether legal or not. So if you respect life, you can't wish death or mutilation on these women, by making it illegal and dangerous.
The only fight is how to decrease them. Abstinence doesn't work (hardly even, if you look at stats of people in states that mostly preach it). Education and contraception does.
Choose your battle.
Or would that be welfary thinking ?
I would believe what you said but before abortions were legal we didn't have abortions happening on main street at walk in clinics, I guess women decided to become mothers instead. We didn't have a Dr. Gosnell who aborted babies up until birth on dirty abortion tables and doing it with the health care people looking the other way. I could go on about other atrocities.
Oh yes, the huge number of post 20 week abortions. The whole 1% of them. Why do you anti choice people try to make it seem like all abortions are done in the 7th month with a perfectly viable fetus kicking and screaming on it's way out?
Maybe it's because if people knew the truth, that the vast majority of all abortions happen before the 10 week, they wouldn't be donating to your cause of removing a womans choice.
Do you have the link to that stat? Plus, I don't think babies kick and scream when they are coming though the birth canal.
I would believe what you said but before abortions were legal we didn't have abortions happening on main street at walk in clinics, I guess women decided to become mothers instead. We didn't have a Dr. Gosnell who aborted babies up until birth on dirty abortion tables and doing it with the health care people looking the other way. I could go on about other atrocities.
So your example is of one doctor who WAS BREAKING THE LAW? What do you think will happen if your wish comes true and abortion is made illegal? People like Gosnell will be free to do as they please, since a woman is not going to turn him in since she too would be breaking the law.
By bringing up the people who are breaking the law you are not really proving any type of point, except that people will break the law. Including any law that makes abortions illegal.
P.S. Prior to Roe V Wade women had all kinds of ways to get rid of a pregnancy, including clinics that would do a D&C for "other medical conditions".
A little research will show that there are late-term abortions under the umbrella of "health of the mother" ascribed to "psychological health" reasons.
A little research will show that there are late-term abortions under the umbrella of "health of the mother" ascribed to "psychological health" reasons.
And?
Are you the womans doctor? If not who are you to disagree with information between them and their patient?
A little research will show that there are late-term abortions under the umbrella of "health of the mother" ascribed to "psychological health" reasons.
Well, thank goodness you are a doctor and know better. What is your specialty? I'm interested in your qualifications for making decisions for other people's medical conditions. I'm sure you wouldn't be pretending to know better than a woman's doctor, so please, don't hold back. Dazzle us with your credentials.
I would believe what you said but before abortions were legal we didn't have abortions happening on main street at walk in clinics, I guess women decided to become mothers instead.
That's where you'd be wrong.
Abortions have existed since the beginning of times (look up antiquity and it's way after the beginning) You just didn't see them or chose to believe Little wealthy Sally had gone on a trip to England, Jane met with her 15 years younger brother after a long stay at her grandmama who had taken quite some weight that summer and Little poor Mary had a nasty blood infection resulting from an unknown disease.
No, women who didn't want pregancy in the first place didn't decide to become mothers instead ! Most of them did wih the fact as in "have no choice" and gave their husband the 5th child that would bring them to their death, was that a choice ? Other went to what was called in France "angel makers", hardky professional nurses that would many times leave them scarred if not bleeding to death or the hospital then prison, I'm sure there's a american slang for these people. Others would try the hot gin bath abortion... Does it seem right to you if you love life?
Stats generally show that the number of abortions don't change that much before and after legalization (as much as stats can on an illegal/legal situation). What legalization proves with no contest however is the substantial number of women NOT DYING from the procedure and having kids later, in a better environnement.
I also note you didn't really adress my point, while saying it would be true, how can that be? It was about contraception and sex education fighting effectively the numbers of abortion.
Do you agree or not that if one wants the lowest rate of abortion, one should fight for contraception, sex education and less judgment about sexuality? Or that abstinence is the way despite every study and stat proving the contrary?
The question is : do you want abortion down as low as possible and work to make that happen or you'd prefer to think abortion is illegal, therefore it doesn't happen anymore - even if it does but worse for many lives - already mothers, young girls, mothers in dire straights of need that might straighten their lives later, women who don't want children at all and would.might treat them really bad, etc?
Think about it. Having an abortion is taking a responsability. And a much harsher one and dealt in reality than learning how to curb your natural sexual urges : easy -> pills/condoms avalaible when you're ready.
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) .... is not a solution. Never worked, doesn't work, won't ever work.
