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Technically this is true, but a good guy with a gun did intervene in the 2012 Tacoma Mall shooting. He didn't take the shot because he realized the area behind the perp was not clear. It's generally believed that the perp saw the good guy with the gun and at that point turned his own gun on himself.
Facts are frequently inconvenient for would be gun banners.
Dave
According to your source, police ended the Shooting at Tacoma Mall and the shooter was sent to prison. Facts do get in the way sometimes.
The smallest estimate in their is 67,000 per year, and that's from the Violence Policy Center, a group devoted to banning guns.
Oh, I know you won't bother educating yourself because it would risk an implosion of your belief system. Much safer to continue living a life of delusion.
Dave
LOL. These are after the fact surveys of gun owners with no corroboration of the facts. It's like asking Chris Kyle how many looters he shot in New Orleans. Or asking Bill Belichick if he cheats at football.
If this were true you would see large differences in the incidents of armed robberies between cities with lax gun laws and cities with strict gun laws. You don't see that.
LOL. These are after the fact surveys of gun owners with no corroboration of the facts. It's like asking Chris Kyle how many looters he shot in New Orleans. Or asking Bill Belichick if he cheats at football.
I disagree. It's a subject that is well researched, including some statistics collected by DOJ. That said, even if they were off by an order of magnitude there would still be many more defensive uses that all the deaths from so-called "mass shootings in any 20 year period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever
If this were true you would see large differences in the incidents of armed robberies between cities with lax gun laws and cities with strict gun laws. You don't see that.
As a general matter, violent crime is much lower in states with strict gun control than it is in states that respect the 2nd Amendment. I think there are other factors that drive that difference, but the data doesn't support your argument.
I disagree. It's a subject that is well researched, including some statistics collected by DOJ. That said, even if they were off by an order of magnitude there would still be many more defensive uses that all the deaths from so-called "mass shootings in any 20 year period.
And if they are off by three orders of magnitude? The entire basis of asking someone who owns a gun if he deterred a crime is laughable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cnynrat
As a general matter, violent crime is much lower in states with strict gun control than it is in states that respect the 2nd Amendment. I think there are other factors that drive that difference, but the data doesn't support your argument.
Dave
Crime is not lower where gun laws are lax. Gun deaths are substantially higher in states with high gun ownership.
Driving is a privilege, owning a firearm is a right as spelled out in our constitution. Rights are not privileges, they are rights that you are entitled to by virtue of citizenship.
the only thing I dont agree with in the above is the word "citizenship"
And if they are off by three orders of magnitude? The entire basis of asking someone who owns a gun if he deterred a crime is laughable.
But the reality is they are not off. I could have cited studies that show numbers in the millions, but deliberately chose the number put forward by the organization on your side the the debate. The reality is U believe the number is much higher then 67,000 per year.
BTW, the research methodology is not to survey gun owners and ask if they deterred a crime. By and large the data is taken from police reports.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever
Crime is not lower where gun laws are lax. Gun deaths are substantially higher in states with high gun ownership.
As a general matter, if I read an article in Mother Jones claiming the sky was blue I would run outside to double check. They are not to be trusted on any matter of fact.
In addition, gun deaths does not equal crime. As has been noted elsewhere in this futile discussion suicide is the leading cause of gun deaths, and it's quite reasonable to assume that people who reach that level of desperation would find other means to off themselves if they didn't have a gun. This is another example of the left manipulating the data to support their specious arguments.
The bottom line is that there is no reliable data on the use of guns to deter crime. All of the studies have fatal flaws. Hopefully Congress will allow the CDC to conduct some meaningful research.
You don't have to like Mother Jones, you have to refute the data if you disagree.
Your attitudes toward suicide are polar opposites to the data and clinical observation. Most people who attempt suicide by some other means are not successful and end up getting help. Most people who attempt suicide using a gun are successful.
The bottom line is that there is no reliable data on the use of guns to deter crime. All of the studies have fatal flaws. Hopefully Congress will allow the CDC to conduct some meaningful research.
.
After Sandy Hook, and the failure of Obamas push for new gun control laws in congress, Obama issued 22 executive orders. One of them was to conduct a thorough study. The study has been completed. Much to his dismay, he did not like the results. I suppose you don't either because you now want a "'meaningful study" to be done. Links have been provided numerous times in previous posts.
The bottom line is that there is no reliable data on the use of guns to deter crime. All of the studies have fatal flaws. Hopefully Congress will allow the CDC to conduct some meaningful research.
You don't have to like Mother Jones, you have to refute the data if you disagree.
Your attitudes toward suicide are polar opposites to the data and clinical observation. Most people who attempt suicide by some other means are not successful and end up getting help. Most people who attempt suicide using a gun are successful.
After Sandy Hook, and the failure of Obamas push for new gun control laws in congress, Obama issued 22 executive orders. One of them was to conduct a thorough study. The study has been completed. Much to his dismay, he did not like the results. I suppose you don't either because you now want a "'meaningful study" to be done. Links have been provided numerous times in previous posts.
Read the study. It's findings and conclusions have been completely misrepresented on this board. The study's goal was to establish research goals.
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