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Old 01-31-2015, 07:00 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
18,149 posts, read 15,566,042 times
Reputation: 17138

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHartphotog View Post
There is no validity to statistics (like "none") when talking about incredibly rare events--events are basically anecdotal. "Mass shootings" number only 62 in our nation of over 300 million people, over 200+ years--and pretty much ALL of them were historically recent, as less and less average citizens routinely carry guns. And if not many of the more recent mass shootings benefitted from armed civilians, that only proves that the liberal media and government have largely removed guns in lawful hands from more congested, urbanized areas.

But even among mass shootings, off the top of my head, I know that Charles Whitman, an army-trained sniper who killed 16 people and injured over 30 others while shooting from the bell tower at the University of Texas at Austin, was pinned down by armed Texas civilians before police arrived, and during the standoff. "Ramiro Martinez, an officer who participated in stopping Whitman's rampage, later stated that the civilian shooters should be credited, as they made it difficult for him to take careful aim." The civilian shooters also kept Whitman confined to more protected parts of the tower, which prevented him from being able to target virtually every area below. In the end, three police officers and a civilian (quickly deputized on-site) entered the level where Whitman was shooting and overwhelmed the shooter by coming at him from 2 directions. Charles Whitman, The Texas Bell Tower Sniper, Kills 14 | World History Project

NOTE: I'd like to point out that today in America, when the police respond to shootings, they simply remain outside the firing zone and wait for the gunmen to kill all their victims--and then hopefully commit suicide themselves, or give up. That is what happened at the Columbine shooting, where police surrounded the school 90 minutes before sounds of shooting stopped, and the police felt it was safe to go in. Ditto the Virginia Tech shootings. And let's not forget the two sick murderers in Cheshire CT, who molested a wife and 2 young daughters before setting them on fire (bound and alive) and fleeing the home--which had been surrounded by police for over an hour (since the badly-beaten husband escaped from the cellar). The 2 young girls burned alive while the police stayed safely outside to watch the fire burn and listen to the screams of the dying girls. At least the cops took the 2 psychos into custody after they crashed the car while attempting escape.
Excellent points. These elitist , fireafms /firearms owner hate mongers are ways blitbering about how we should rely on the police. On and on they go, backing about how the cops are "trained" in use of a firearm, and we the people are not. Thing is, they actually believe that bovine dung. Standard police firearms training and qualification is pretty weak. We've been seeing quite a few police shootings, of late, and that weak training and experience shows. A lot of bullets go out the muzzle The number of fight stopping hits is usually far lower than the number of rounds fired.

When the wolf is at the door, you don't really have the option of asking him to wait. while you're hanging on hold with 911, either. For all the coca doodle doo these anti citizen self defense types emit, about their enlightenment and higher intellect, all that really shines through is blatant ignorance and stupidity.

Ahh, but just give the bad guys whatever they want, and they won't hurt you. They will take what they want and leave, and the police can catch them later. And if what they want is to rape and kill your lady and make you watch? Well, at least you MIGHT live. If you want to call it living.

I'll just keep my firearms, but thanks for your "concern" firearms owner haters. Perhaps you can find a receptive crowd for your ideal of a disarmed citizenry in downtown gangville or Home Invasions r Us.

Last edited by NVplumber; 01-31-2015 at 07:44 PM..
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Old 01-31-2015, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,933 posts, read 12,863,317 times
Reputation: 7399
Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
Excellent points. These elitist , fireafms /firearms owner hate mongers are ways blitbering about bow we should rely on the police. On and on they go, backing about how the cops are "trained" in use of a firearm, and we the people are not. Thing is, they actually believe that bovine dung. Standard police firearms training and qualification is pretty weak. We've been seeing quite a few police shootings, of late, and that weak training and experience shows. A lot of bullets go out the muzzle The number of right stopping hits is usually far lower than the number of rounds fired.
Nowhere is what you are saying more evident than what happened in Cleveland just a couple years ago. Police fired 135 rounds in to a single car to execute two unarmed suspects, bonnie-n-clyde style....

13 Cleveland police officers who fired 137 rounds into car, killing 2, expected to be interviewed by investigators today (videos) | cleveland.com

In all fairness, they thought the crack-head suspects had a gun, but still. 135 rounds? Yeah, we're much safer letting them defend us. They just throw a lot of led and hope one piece actually hits it's mark.
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Old 01-31-2015, 07:48 PM
 
16,956 posts, read 16,704,893 times
Reputation: 10408
It's like an easy a math equation:

Scenarion #1 : You have one gun owner, with a creep climbing into his bedroom window.......equals......another dead criminal.

Scenario #2 : You have a home owner, no gun, no protection, with a creep climbing into the owners bedroom window. A fight ensues but the home owner loses because he can't stop the criminal from bashing his head in, while threatening his wife, after the criminal/creep steals everything he owns that is precious to him..
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Old 01-31-2015, 08:18 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
18,149 posts, read 15,566,042 times
Reputation: 17138
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
Nowhere is what you are saying more evident than what happened in Cleveland just a couple years ago. Police fired 135 rounds in to a single car to execute two unarmed suspects, bonnie-n-clyde style....

13 Cleveland police officers who fired 137 rounds into car, killing 2, expected to be interviewed by investigators today (videos) | cleveland.com

In all fairness, they thought the crack-head suspects had a gun, but still. 135 rounds? Yeah, we're much safer letting them defend us. They just throw a lot of led and hope one piece actually hits it's mark.
I'll tell ya Whipper, I ain't been worked up on this issue in a spell. But, reading some of the commentary in this thread puts me there. I am just fed up, to the gills, with the arrogance, conceit, self grandeurizing and preachy refuse oozing from these firearms owner haters.

I wonder, what happens when the Beast finds THEM? Would their superior intellect and enlightened consciousness save them, do you think? Violent criminals have touched my life. Someone I love more than my own life will never be the same because of one of the vermin ridden, plain evil, criminal element. She is everything to me, and he took part of her soul.

Then , I see commentary like what is on this thread, and it just BOILS me. These cretins actually believe their own spew. K gjess they think that violent crime can never touch them, a d the think we should believe that too. Well, its far too late to convince me.
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Old 02-01-2015, 06:47 AM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,963,519 times
Reputation: 3572
Quote:
Originally Posted by WannaliveinGreenville View Post
It's like an easy a math equation:

Scenarion #1 : You have one gun owner, with a creep climbing into his bedroom window.......equals......another dead criminal.

Scenario #2 : You have a home owner, no gun, no protection, with a creep climbing into the owners bedroom window. A fight ensues but the home owner loses because he can't stop the criminal from bashing his head in, while threatening his wife, after the criminal/creep steals everything he owns that is precious to him..
Scenario #3: Homeowner fights with his wife, takes out his gun and shoots her.

Scenario #4: Homeowner's young son gets gun out to play with. Playing cops and robber with gun he shoots his sister.

Scenario #5: Homeowner gets in argument with neighbor, gets gun and threatens neighbor who takes gun away from homeowner and shoots his balls off.

Scenario #6 Homeowner wakes up in the night due to a suspicious sound, arms self and shoots "intruder" attempting to enter house. It turns out to be the unarmed, intoxicated teen who lives next door and got confused when trying to return home.

Scenario #7 Homeowner's bipolar daughter commits suicide with gun.

As the old football coach said about the forward pass, "There are three things that can happen and two of them are bad."
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Old 02-01-2015, 07:04 AM
 
3,216 posts, read 2,077,882 times
Reputation: 1861
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
Scenario #3: Homeowner fights with his wife, takes out his gun and shoots her.

Scenario #4: Homeowner's young son gets gun out to play with. Playing cops and robber with gun he shoots his sister.

Scenario #5: Homeowner gets in argument with neighbor, gets gun and threatens neighbor who takes gun away from homeowner and shoots his balls off.

Scenario #6 Homeowner wakes up in the night due to a suspicious sound, arms self and shoots "intruder" attempting to enter house. It turns out to be the unarmed, intoxicated teen who lives next door and got confused when trying to return home.

Scenario #7 Homeowner's bipolar daughter commits suicide with gun.

As the old football coach said about the forward pass, "There are three things that can happen and two of them are bad."
Second amendment says scenerio 1 trumps all your scenarios.
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Old 02-01-2015, 10:41 AM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,963,519 times
Reputation: 3572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlandochuck1 View Post
Second amendment says scenerio 1 trumps all your scenarios.
Actually the Supreme Court says that it doesn't, but I'm glad you acknowledge the truth of the carnage caused by weak gun control laws.
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Old 02-01-2015, 11:35 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,792,238 times
Reputation: 6509
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
Actually the Supreme Court says that it doesn't, but I'm glad you acknowledge the truth of the carnage caused by weak gun control laws.
Actually, you are wrong. SCOTUS upheld keeping a loaded gun in your home is protected under the 2nd amendment.
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Old 02-01-2015, 12:17 PM
 
2,851 posts, read 3,466,038 times
Reputation: 1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
Excellent points. These elitist , fireafms /firearms owner hate mongers are ways blitbering about how we should rely on the police. On and on they go, backing about how the cops are "trained" in use of a firearm, and we the people are not. Thing is, they actually believe that bovine dung. Standard police firearms training and qualification is pretty weak. We've been seeing quite a few police shootings, of late, and that weak training and experience shows. A lot of bullets go out the muzzle The number of fight stopping hits is usually far lower than the number of rounds fired.

When the wolf is at the door, you don't really have the option of asking him to wait. while you're hanging on hold with 911, either. For all the coca doodle doo these anti citizen self defense types emit, about their enlightenment and higher intellect, all that really shines through is blatant ignorance and stupidity.

Ahh, but just give the bad guys whatever they want, and they won't hurt you. They will take what they want and leave, and the police can catch them later. And if what they want is to rape and kill your lady and make you watch? Well, at least you MIGHT live. If you want to call it living.

I'll just keep my firearms, but thanks for your "concern" firearms owner haters. Perhaps you can find a receptive crowd for your ideal of a disarmed citizenry in downtown gangville or Home Invasions r Us.
Quite correct. Texas keeps very strict tabs on DGU (defensive gun uses) as part of the law that allowed for Concealed Carry. On the whole not only are concealed gun owners less likely to commit crime then the average population they were less likely then POLICE to commit a crime.

Further, non-LEO folks using a firearm in self defense were found to have better accuracy, shoot the wrong people less, and have less collateral damage and injury when using their firearm.
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Old 02-01-2015, 12:22 PM
 
2,851 posts, read 3,466,038 times
Reputation: 1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
Scenario #3: Homeowner fights with his wife, takes out his gun and shoots her.

Scenario #4: Homeowner's young son gets gun out to play with. Playing cops and robber with gun he shoots his sister.

Scenario #5: Homeowner gets in argument with neighbor, gets gun and threatens neighbor who takes gun away from homeowner and shoots his balls off.

Scenario #6 Homeowner wakes up in the night due to a suspicious sound, arms self and shoots "intruder" attempting to enter house. It turns out to be the unarmed, intoxicated teen who lives next door and got confused when trying to return home.

Scenario #7 Homeowner's bipolar daughter commits suicide with gun.

As the old football coach said about the forward pass, "There are three things that can happen and two of them are bad."
Medicine is a lot like that, plenty of alternative negative consequences to treating people but the outlook of having medicine there to intercede far outweighs the risks involved.

Scenario 4, 5, and 6 are astoundingly rare. Scenario 7 is unlikely because women tend to use poisoning vs. firearms. Interestingly you don't advocate a ban on bleach, sleeping pills, alcohol, pain killers, etc.
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