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No epidemics of old diseases are coming back because a few kooks don't want vaccinations. Your paranoia level is no less kooky than theirs. If our Government and multinational corporations have your complete, blind trust, then you're very, very naive.
Since when are you qualified to diagnose someone you never met with paranoia and call them"kooky"? Aren't you the one who complained in another thread that pro-vax people are mean and make personal attacks?
The party of compassion strikes again...you can just feel the love and tolerance and complete absence of regressive hatred and bigotry from all these posters . Yes, my fellow users, we have clearly progressed from all those hateful, bigoted, fearful, stereotype-filled past eras.
Never forget the founding principals of the Progressive movement were a belief that the weak and defective (i.e. those who are too sick to defend themselves from disease) should be eliminated from the human gene pool completely in order to "progress" humanity.
Since when are you qualified to diagnose someone you never met with paranoia and call them"kooky"? Aren't you the one who complained in another thread that pro-vax people are mean and make personal attacks?
So, no calling names, labeling or demonizing then? How many other posters in this thread have you given this talk to? Or, could it be you're a hypocrite who selectively applies the rules when it's convenient?
No epidemics of old diseases are coming back because a few kooks don't want vaccinations. Your paranoia level is no less kooky than theirs. If our Government and multinational corporations have your complete, blind trust, then you're very, very naive.
I am not paranoid at all and not naive. I do think you are naive though. Measles is an old disease which is most definitely coming back. These few kooks are causing the epidemic.
Check out the hyper-confidence of medical doctors.
" . . . a public that tends to believe, without question, what doctors and the media say—that vaccines are unquestionably safe for everyone."
Today, the Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)1 recommends 69 doses of 16 vaccines for your child, starting on his or her day of birth and continuing through age 18—including 49 doses before the age of six. This is more than double the number of vaccines prescribed 30 years ago.
Such a regimen typically manipulates and deals a heavy blow to your child's developing immune system, raising his or her risk for development of brain dysfunction and autoimmune disorders.
I should point out that until you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that someone has done you harm neither you nor the state have any right to lay a finger on them, and that includes injecting substances into someone else's body against their will (which I'm amazed isn't considered morally akin to rape). If someone has not been vaccinated and does not injure you in any way what right do you have to lay a finger on them? They are innocent in every sense of the word. Is it likelier that they will give you a disease? Perhaps, but it is also likelier that a black man will injure you, so should we resurrect forcible segregation of blacks? Men are more likely to kill you than women, so should men be put in leper colonies? On the street you're more likely to be killed by a driver than a pedestrian so should we then ban driving?
It should also be noted that the principle of criminalizing giving people a disease would apply equally as much to vaccinated people, who do give people diseases and in much greater numbers than anti-vaxxers, so it's strange that all we hear about is forcing shots on people, and it's even stranger that it just happens to be the exact same vaccine schedule American governments want people to take rather than, say, every vaccine for every disease ever made. After all, "vaccines are healthy for you" and you have no right to judge the risks and benefits for yourself and your children - no, "the whole community", which rather bizarrely is all but defined as the small subset of such known as government, knows the risks and benefits to you in your situation better than you do and can solicit better advice for you than you can. Who needs your own doctors when our medical lords can decide what medical care "the whole community" should receive and do so much better? If this principle were consistently applied it would impinge upon all those who give others diseases, including the vaccinated, and would not justify forcing shots on all people.
What if the man you forcibly inject would have never caught and spread the disease? You will have by any standard violated a man's most basic freedom for nothing, and will have put him at far greater risk of him being victimized by all manner of police state totalitarianism. Abolishing freedom, which is what this proposal to treat everyone like cattle amounts to, is far riskier than any disease. Medically speaking, why would anyone who is sworn to "do no harm" support granting unlimited power to an institution that was the leading cause of unnatural death in the 20th century and more lethal than war or any contagious disease? The most deadly contagious disease that exists is government tyranny.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperthetic
" . . . a public that tends to believe, without question, what doctors and the media say—that vaccines are unquestionably safe for everyone."
Today, the Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)1 recommends 69 doses of 16 vaccines for your child, starting on his or her day of birth and continuing through age 18—including 49 doses before the age of six. This is more than double the number of vaccines prescribed 30 years ago.
Such a regimen typically manipulates and deals a heavy blow to your child's developing immune system, raising his or her risk for development of brain dysfunction and autoimmune disorders.
Indeed. The U.S. require far more shots than any other country in the world; other countries in Europe require far fewer and if anything their people are healthier, so a schedule as intensive as America has (and getting more intensive with each passing decade) is pretty obviously unnecessary. Also, more recent research has revealed that the vaccine schedules of recent decades coupled with the effectiveness rates means that the American population never had "herd immunity" in any era, so there is no reason to believe that if we "lose herd immunity" we will be at increased risk versus today since we never had it to begin with.
You should use your mind and calmly think about the issue rather than succumbing to fear and paranoia like the pro-vaxxers evidently have; honestly, I think the pro-vaxxers show far more symptoms of kookiness than the anti-vaxxers do. At least most of the anti-vaxxers research the issue themselves, calmly weigh the risks as they see them, make a judgment, and then let others be; that's more than I can say for most pro-vaxxers here. If I ever saw a kook the guy that wrote this column is a kook, but since he's backed by those in power he doesn't get called a kook at every turn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469
I am not paranoid at all and not naive. I do think you are naive though. Measles is an old disease which is most definitely coming back. These few kooks are causing the epidemic.
What epidemic? 100 people in a country of 300 million get a contagious disease and you call that an epidemic? Next thing you know brain-eating amoeba (usually about 3 cases per year) will be an epidemic .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperthetic
Well, who's fault is it that the World Health Organization withholds the release of vitamins A&D to most of the people of the world?
If you people want a source here's a source with regards to the U.S. government restricting vitamins; I don't know about the WHO or "withholding" vitamins to most of the world's people (my first instinct is to be skeptical of that claim), but this stuff is not paranoia: there is a real desire in some quarters to tighten the noose around vitamins and supplements.
No epidemics of old diseases are coming back because a few kooks don't want vaccinations. Your paranoia level is no less kooky than theirs. If our Government and multinational corporations have your complete, blind trust, then you're very, very naive.
I should point out that until you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that someone has done you harm neither you nor the state have any right to lay a finger on them, and that includes injecting substances into someone else's body against their will (which I'm amazed isn't considered morally akin to rape). If someone has not been vaccinated and does not injure you in any way what right do you have to lay a finger on them? They are innocent in every sense of the word. Is it likelier that they will give you a disease? Perhaps, but it is also likelier that a black man will injure you, so should we resurrect forcible segregation of blacks? Men are more likely to kill you than women, so should men be put in leper colonies? On the street you're more likely to be killed by a driver than a pedestrian so should we then ban driving?
It should also be noted that the principle of criminalizing giving people a disease would apply equally as much to vaccinated people, who do give people diseases and in much greater numbers than anti-vaxxers, so it's strange that all we hear about is forcing shots on people, and it's even stranger that it just happens to be the exact same vaccine schedule American governments want people to take rather than, say, every vaccine for every disease ever made. After all, "vaccines are healthy for you" and you have no right to judge the risks and benefits for yourself and your children - no, "the whole community", which rather bizarrely is all but defined as the small subset of such known as government, knows the risks and benefits to you in your situation better than you do and can solicit better advice for you than you can. Who needs your own doctors when our medical lords can decide what medical care "the whole community" should receive and do so much better? If this principle were consistently applied it would impinge upon all those who give others diseases, including the vaccinated, and would not justify forcing shots on all people.
What if the man you forcibly inject would have never caught and spread the disease? You will have by any standard violated a man's most basic freedom for nothing, and will have put him at far greater risk of him being victimized by all manner of police state totalitarianism. Abolishing freedom, which is what this proposal to treat everyone like cattle amounts to, is far riskier than any disease. Medically speaking, why would anyone who is sworn to "do no harm" support granting unlimited power to an institution that was the leading cause of unnatural death in the 20th century and more lethal than war or any contagious disease? The most deadly contagious disease that exists is government tyranny.
Indeed. The U.S. require far more shots than any other country in the world; other countries in Europe require far fewer and if anything their people are healthier, so a schedule as intensive as America has (and getting more intensive with each passing decade) is pretty obviously unnecessary. Also, more recent research has revealed that the vaccine schedules of recent decades coupled with the effectiveness rates means that the American population never had "herd immunity" in any era, so there is no reason to believe that if we "lose herd immunity" we will be at increased risk versus today since we never had it to begin with.
You should use your mind and calmly think about the issue rather than succumbing to fear and paranoia like the pro-vaxxers evidently have; honestly, I think the pro-vaxxers show far more symptoms of kookiness than the anti-vaxxers do. At least most of the anti-vaxxers research the issue themselves, calmly weigh the risks as they see them, make a judgment, and then let others be; that's more than I can say for most pro-vaxxers here. If I ever saw a kook the guy that wrote this column is a kook, but since he's backed by those in power he doesn't get called a kook at every turn.
What epidemic? 100 people in a country of 300 million get a contagious disease and you call that an epidemic? Next thing you know brain-eating amoeba (usually about 3 cases per year) will be an epidemic .
If you people want a source here's a source with regards to the U.S. government restricting vitamins; I don't know about the WHO or "withholding" vitamins to most of the world's people (my first instinct is to be skeptical of that claim), but this stuff is not paranoia: there is a real desire in some quarters to tighten the noose around vitamins and supplements.
So much nonsense and half-truths in here I don't know where to start. How about here. Don't forget to call me "mean" because I said your post is nonsense.
Most of the measles patients in California are unvaccinated.
Europe (bow down at the mention of that continent) has a huge measles epidemic going on there right now b/c of anti-vax nuts. Most European countries have similar immunization schedules to the US.
ALL EU countries include measles vaccine in their schedules, most use the two dose schedule that we do.
An epidemic is a larger than expected number of cases. I'm not sure if this current measles outbreak has been called an epidemic yet.
So much nonsense and half-truths in here I don't know where to start. How about here. Don't forget to call me "mean" because I said your post is nonsense.
Most of the measles patients in California are unvaccinated.
Europe (bow down at the mention of that continent) has a huge measles epidemic going on there right now b/c of anti-vax nuts. Most European countries have similar immunization schedules to the US.
ALL EU countries include measles vaccine in their schedules, most use the two dose schedule that we do.
An epidemic is a larger than expected number of cases. I'm not sure if this current measles outbreak has been called an epidemic yet.
Totally agree. I'll take being "mean" over being ignorant. Measles are highly contagious and there is a safe vaccine that can prevent the disease. How any parents can justify exposing their children (and other children) to a preventable disease and possibly death is simply beyond comprehension in this day and age. Anyone who uses Jenny McCarthy as a scientific medical guru should have their heads examined. Not vaccinating is an irresponsible decision--it's called public health for a reason. I wonder how many anti-vaxxers who were on that Amtrack train with their unvaccinated children traveling with the the infected and contagious kid this week are still digging in their heels.
If you got your shot then you have your protective bubble so stop worrying about everyone else.
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. Yes, my fellow users, we have clearly progressed from all those hateful, bigoted, fearful, stereotype-filled past eras.