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Old 02-05-2015, 06:48 PM
 
82 posts, read 44,830 times
Reputation: 42

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gen811 View Post
here is the problem:
most people are too stupid to learn and create.
they refuse to learn and create without incentive.

as a result capitalism is needed to trick them into creating things.

socialism/communism forces them to create while not rewarding them.
as a result they only produce just so much to satisfy their masters instead of going all out.

some people in capitalism and socialism though are genuinely altruistic not all but there are those that exist. I won't say Bill Gates or Warren Buffet for donating vast sums as they are both likely having their own agendas to look good in the public's eye

genuinely altruistic people do not show off do not attract attention but give without others noticing or thanking them. They are only found out later by accident rather that they did these good deeds.
those that bask in the limelight like BG or WB are fake altruists.

But at least it still benefits society.
there are very few genuinely altruistic people though
to motivate society to create you need to give them great motivation


Poor people can easily farm their own food create their own clothes
etc, instead of living on welfare but they have lost their will.

but many of them choose to go on welfare no matter what
they could at least cut coupons some do many do not

because they are lazy.
or have become lazy as they have given up on pursuing greatness or improving themselves.
they go into gangs to become rich so they think as it is easier for them to rob instead of learning a skill to create.
Not always true. I'm on food stamps but I leave home at 7am and don't get home until 8pm busting my ass all day, on top of that I've managed to get at least 12hrs worth of studying in a week. I also walk anywhere between 5-12 miles a day because my car is broken down. No excuses, just do it. On top of that I take care of a disabled spouse which needs help doing anything. Wheelchaired her but 6 miles to the doctor today.

Of course I'll probably be off welfare eventually
or so because I am constantly looking for better work, more education, saving money to invest in stocks etc.
Unfortunately though the type of people you describe do exist, in fact I know some of them. Neighbor of mine constantly attempt to ask me for bus money or rides (when my car worked) because she has no money, she works pt at McDonald's, just flat out didn't go to an interview for a second job, and has her rent subsidized, gets $500 a month in food stamps, energy assistance etc. How the @$&# do you have no money? You don't even have any real bills.
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Old 02-05-2015, 07:36 PM
 
Location: midwest
1,430 posts, read 1,025,878 times
Reputation: 880
Quote:
Originally Posted by non-linear View Post
That's kind of the point of capitalism. It provides a constant supply of goods and services. You're basically saying we need an unstable unsustainable economy. That's socialism and communism. Capitalism runs on economic laws based on a free market that can be mathematically explained, and you can try all you want to get around it but its the only thing that has or ever will work. The entire world has progressed more then it has on thousands of years in only 200 because of it.
ROFLMAO

Do the Laws of Physics work the same way under Capitalism and Communism? And for Capital Goods and Consumer Goods?

Try finding a Capitalist economist that talks about what any country and the entire world loses on DEPRECIATION of cars and air conditioners and refrigerators? Economists are technological morons. I asked a PhD economist who appears on television talking about economics to explain how an automobile engine works. He could not do it. That is technology over 100 years old.

So hear we are 45 years after the Moon landing and they don't talk about the planned obsolescence of cars. But the brilliant Communist economist don't point out that the Capitalist economists ignore all of the Demand Side Depreciation.

They can't do algebra properly for computing NET Domestic Product.

Economic Wargames

Capitalism and Communism are just Europeanisms that are technologically obsolete bullsh!t.

psik
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Old 02-05-2015, 07:48 PM
 
7,846 posts, read 5,268,296 times
Reputation: 4025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post

Oh, yes, you most certainly do.


Here are six examples:

1] Two families of four, each receiving $400/month in Food Stamps. The problem is that $400 buys....

$578.13 worth of food in Cincinnati.
$210.23 worth of food in San Fransisco

....due to the differences in Cost-of Living and Purchasing Power.
Actually no. Stop right there. Food is not several times more expensive in San Francisco than Cincinnati. The biggest factor in cost of living adjustments are housing costs and utility costs due to climate. San Francisco is expensive due to geography's affect on housing prices.

As usual, the rest of your post is a wall of meaningless words.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperJohn View Post
His opinion is pure liberal dogma. Air is a limitless resource. Why scuba diving is so expensive makes no sense.
While net solar energy hitting the planet is effectively limitless, it's not in a state that is readily convertible to an active state. It isn't an issue of capitalism, it's basic physics. [/quote]

You don't understand physics if you think we can't transfer ultraviolet radiation into "usable" forms energy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperJohn View Post
Extracting fresh water from sea water is hugely energy intensive. Any engineer knows what is involved. The production of food on a large scale is energy intensive. Manufacture of fertilizer consumes gobs of power.
I never argued otherwise. That energy can indeed be harnessed through solar and hydroelectric power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperJohn View Post
The more I read his opinions like this the more I'm scared for the country. The usual segment of the population who can't pull their weight blame it on the system and demand a piece from somebody else.

That had nothing to do with my argument but your ad hominem is hilarious.
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Old 02-05-2015, 07:57 PM
 
7,846 posts, read 5,268,296 times
Reputation: 4025
Quote:
Originally Posted by brownbagg View Post
see, here where you not telling the truth, if you was any type of engineer, you would understand capitalism better , also there is not one word i posted that was political or had anything to do with political system

but anyway. lest get to the meat and potatoes, if you hate the capitalism system so much, what would you replace it with?
I am a libertarian socialist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Scarcity is an Economic fact-of-life, existing in Free Markets, Command Markets and Traditional Markets, and by extensions, all hybrids thereof.
That was the point of the thread. Scarcity is "created." Without it, there is no market. Scarcity is not necessary anymore. We have the technology for a self-sustaining human population.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Those are very childish observations, typical of non-starters with low intelligence.


Where is this cultivation taking place?

On the Ethereal Plane? On the Plane of Other Dimensions? In your head?
You can't discuss anything without insults.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
All Capital is fixed and finite and therefore limited, resulting in both competition and scarcity.
It is not finite. It comes right out of thin air. Poof!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Explain how 100,000 Lei notes lifted Romania into the world's wealthiest State.
Misrepresentation. Explain how the United States comes up with its $4 trillion budget before tax revenues were even "collected."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
You have neither the technology not the Capital. Your argument was still-born.
We do have the technology.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
The US Dollar is not fiat.
Yes, it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
All money is limited to the GDP.
No, GDP = Federal Spending + Non Federal Spending + Net Exports

Money is unlimited. It is created on a computer screen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
When money exceeds GDP, you get this:
"Money" is debt. Japan's money has exceeded its GDP by over 2.5 times. Where is the bankruptcy?!?!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Nominating....

Mircea
Pathetic.
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Old 02-05-2015, 08:08 PM
 
8,885 posts, read 5,042,447 times
Reputation: 9242
you still haven't replied ' what type system you would like to replace it with?
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Old 02-05-2015, 08:14 PM
 
7,846 posts, read 5,268,296 times
Reputation: 4025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Actually, it's 117 years and the list includes:

Do you want to know what the US would look like sans imperialism?

Take a trip to Russia this summer....


Mircea
Misrepresentation. Imperialism is exactly the difference between the U.S. and those countries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
And all of those things are limited, being fixed and finite.
No, they aren't fixed and finite.. and I already explained how.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post

Um, the Sun provides energy in the form of Ultra-Violet A, Ultra-Violet B, and soft X-Rays.

You still require natural gas, and various grades of oils ranging from heavy oils to very lights oils.

At this stage in the game, you don't have the technology to produce sufficient number of solar cells to harness the Sun's radiation. Not only do you not have the technology, you don't have the resources or space, and you certainly don't have the Labor Capital.
Actually, we do. We have the technology, resources, space, and labor capital.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Your ineptitude fails to consider the possibility of a Krakatoa- or Toba-like event, or volcanic out-gassings, or small asteroid impact, such as Meteor Crater in Arizona.

In each case, particulate matter is ejected into the Stratosphere and Mesosphere deflecting UV-A, UV-B and soft-Xrays away from Earth and your precious solar power cells.
So your argument against solar is that it won't work during a volcanic eruption? LOL. Ever heard of battery storage?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
You've been repeatedly debunked on that lie.
No, I'm right. You're wrong.


What about time?

Space-area-land?

Field preparation?

Field enhancements with fertilizers and pesticides or herbicides?

Transportation?

Post-harvest production?

I see you've spent an entire 3 nanoseconds in useless thought on this.



That's incorrect, but keep guessing and maybe before this Century ends, you'll get it right.



Totally irrelevant.



What could you buy with 100,000 Lei?

Three bottles of Arbema Pils, which cost 32,000 Lei each.

Tell us again how "money is limitless."
[/quote]

I've told you dozens of times. The Federal government issues an order to your bank to increase the value of your checking account. Poof!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Wrong again. Money exists as a medium to facilitate trade and commerce.
Yes. It is made up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
And with what effect on the environment?

The energy requirements for desalination are enormous. That's why Iran and Jordan and many other States with looming water resource issues are using or exploring nuclear energy.
The energy that strikes this planet is enormous. Far more than the amount needed to desalinate enough water for 7 billion people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Wrong. The only point of Capitalism is that individuals are more responsive to the needs of the Market.
No, individuals have an incentive to produce in the market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Profit is a requirement in all Economic Systems: Free Market, Command Market and Traditional Market.
Economics is a social science not a physical science.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagogeorge View Post
Until we can capture solar radiation out of thin air and turn it into electricity, it is indeed very limited, and much more expensive than traditional energy.
What the hell do you think a solar panel is?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
Umm....................

That was the most confused collection of tripe I have read in a long time; Your "solution" relies upon circular reasoning to "explain" how every resource in the world should be "free", with the main culprit being capitalism.
There is no flaw in the circular reasoning. I'll simplify it for you.

The earth is an open system that receives energy from the sun. We have the technology to harness that energy for our power. Provided there is a stable human population with access to that technology, we can collectively grow enough food and collect enough water to maintain the stable population. The perpetual motion flaw is solved by human production.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
Tell me.......................................... were resources unlimited in pre-Biblical times prior to capitalism?
That was absolutely not my argument. Did we have the technology to convert sun to electricity in biblical times?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
You suggest that somehow "Money" (which is not currency and vice versa) is unlimited and is restricted only by fiat. That is INSANE. "Money" is a symbol for a unit of transfer and trade which represents limited resources, i.e. LABOR (the biggest factor), ENERGY (no, it is not unlimited unless one has the power to unlock those unlimited resources), FOOD (again- we have already reached "peak food" and are in global ag decline), MATERIALS ("grow" me a walnut forest- STAT!), and WATER (like energy, water is limited by the costs required to obtain it).
Try thinking harder. My explanation was clear. There is no limit to "costs." Costs / Money is 100% fiat. It is artificial. Get it through your head. MONEY IS FAKE. IT EXISTS BECAUSE OF LAW. Money is not a tangible object.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
Your insane assumption presumes that one can simply snap your fingers and produce whatever you want, like Barbara Eden from "I Dream of Jeanie".

Keep in mind that ALL ENERGY is limitless, as mass and energy are one in the same. So is time and gravity (please review Einstein's equations). We can simply "snap our fingers", create cold fusion, and PRESTO! - energy problem solved.

Your "analysis" is akin to a Monty Python skit about a television show called "How To Do It", in which John Cleese plays offers simplistic, impossible "simple" solutions to the major problems of the world. That skit was just as funny as your post.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNfGyIW7aHM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=tNfGyIW7aHM
Cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
And how, pray tell, do we connect all 6 billion people on Earth with this unlimited potable water and edible food?

Did someone invent replicator technology so that even the nomad in the desert or the slumdog beggar can simply walk up to one, say the name of the food or drink they would like and it just appears?
LOL, really? Here is the answer below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDusty View Post
Construct infrastructure to transport and store water. It's not that hard to put something in a container and move it. We do it all the time.

We have enough edible food. Every scientific study agrees with that (unless Monsanto paid for it). And if we can master the transportation of water and allow various places in the world to truly grown and develop on their own, we would have even more farmland and even more of an abundance all over the world. The solution to world hunger isn't complicated. We stop allowing corporate interests to exploit the worlds' resources and work on development of new technology that will bring fresh water and advanced agriculture to places all over the globe. The only reason we aren't doing it is the people who profit off of pillaging the world of it's riches buy politicians off to do their bidding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDusty View Post
This thread is dedicated to ending capitalism, but if you truly want to fix the issue, you end corporatism. Keep money out of politics. We can trust in a reasonably regulated free market that strives to advance humanities technological resources to do a better job of fixing the world's problems than governments with shortsighted goals.
I'm a libertarian socialist. I despise communism even more than capitalism.
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Old 02-05-2015, 08:16 PM
 
7,846 posts, read 5,268,296 times
Reputation: 4025
Quote:
Originally Posted by brownbagg View Post
you still haven't replied ' what type system you would like to replace it with?
I am closet to a libertarian socialist, that should answer your question.

Do your reading. Google will be your friend on this one.
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Old 02-05-2015, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Iowa, USA
6,554 posts, read 3,268,493 times
Reputation: 3798
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
rubbish. though there are different cultures in the world, there is an underlying human nature. the culture is how that human nature is satisfied.
Human nature is basic survival instincts. Hardly different than any other mammal. Culture creates values. When dealing with how the economy should work, our values are taken into consideration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
while there have been collectivist societies, they were NOT pure collectivism. they all had a hierarchical structure with a leader or leaders at the top who ran everything, down to the workers at the bottom who did everything.
Collectivism means putting the group as a priority over the individual. It does not mean there is no leadership or hierarchy. Communism calls for the removal of hierarchy, not collectivism, which is a vague ideal and not an actual economic system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
true, humans dont need monetary payment to contribute, but they do need some form of compensation for their efforts.
Of course, but there are many forms of compensation. As I said, this doesn't mean you get something special. Native Americans existed in the Americas for thousands of years, many of whom having a collectivist economic structure where you worked and contributed, and then everyone got to enjoy the effort of the whole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
theories are fine, but the world doesnt run on theories, it runs on compensation. now that compensation can take a number of forms, for instance a farmer can be compensated for his crops by the community at large to say build him a barn, or mend his fences as needed. but even in the communities where it does work well, for instance the amish and menonite communities, there is still a hierarchical structure, and there is still compensation required in some form or another.
Hierarchical structure is still possibly in collectivism. Communism is not the only form of collectivism that exists. I know the US is still living on Cold War vibes, but the world isn't split into freedom and communism; it never has been. There are always more than two factions.

And the world does run on theories. Capitalism started as a theory. They all did. Capitalism is only a few hundred years old.
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Old 02-05-2015, 08:38 PM
 
8,885 posts, read 5,042,447 times
Reputation: 9242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
I am closet to a libertarian socialist, that should answer your question.

Do your reading. Google will be your friend on this one.
no, its not my job to google, because googling is another person ideas, you was the one that started the idea of anti- capitalism, I'm just asking a fair question, to explain your idea for replacement.

i am asking you, the person, not the web. so c'mon give it your fair shot. I'm not attacking you in any way, and I won't attack in future.

what is your idea of a replacement system than capitalism?
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Old 02-05-2015, 08:46 PM
 
8,885 posts, read 5,042,447 times
Reputation: 9242
I google your cause and basically , you a fricken hippy. and the system you describe could not possible work, because they would be no incentive to work or to improve, basically you saying, give me free room and board and leave me alone.
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