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Well you know, Conservatives are all about personal liberty!...
Until it comes to what you can put into your body (drugs)
Or what you can do with your body (prostitution, gay marriage...though I guess this is what goes in your body too)
Or on your right to work (thanks to the right to 'fire' state's policies)
Or when it comes to your contraception/maternal rights...even though I don't like all forms of abortion myself
But don't worry! If you're a billionare who wants to make more money, conservatives will give you all the rights you want.
The new conservatives are about personal freedom. The new conservatives don't believe the government should be able to make a plant illegal. The new conservatives don't oppose gay marriage. The new conservatives feel that (consensual) prostitution is the only the business of those adults who choose to engage in that transaction. The new conservatives don't want to be the world's police.
Have the new conservatives taken control of the Republican party? No, but we are trying to do so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
There's no rationale for making herion illegal then either. We, as a society, have chosen to draw the line at drugs. Look at all the great things drugs have done for society.
Making any kind of food illegal is just stupid. We need to eat to live and fat is needed to live. MJ is not needed to live. Do you really think you have some kind of point here comparing MJ to fatty foods? One is a recreational drug that alters the way the brain functions the other is a necessary component of our diet. And if you bothered to do some research you'd find that it's not fatty foods that are the problem with the modern diet. It's lack of exercise coupled with a diet too high in carbs. Our ancestor's diets were higher in fat than ours. If you want to be taken seriously then get your argument straight. MJ has to be compared to other drugs. One only has to look at all the issues we have with alcohol to realize that it is not in society's best interest to legalize drugs. Unfortunately, we've been unsuccessful in keeping them off the market. However, the solution is not legalization. Didn't work for alcohol and won't work for MJ or herion or whatever drug they'll call for making legal next.
It still comes down to the idea that the government should not be passing laws to protect us from ourselves.
The new conservatives are about personal freedom. The new conservatives don't believe the government should be able to make a plant illegal. The new conservatives don't oppose gay marriage. The new conservatives feel that (consensual) prostitution is the only the business of those adults who choose to engage in that transaction. The new conservatives don't want to be the world's police.
Have the new conservatives taken control of the Republican party? No, but we are trying to do so.
It still comes down to the idea that the government should not be passing laws to protect us from ourselves.
Great post Pedro! I wish the republican party would actually practice what they preach in terms of being the party of small government.
The new conservatives are about personal freedom. The new conservatives don't believe the government should be able to make a plant illegal. The new conservatives don't oppose gay marriage. The new conservatives feel that (consensual) prostitution is the only the business of those adults who choose to engage in that transaction. The new conservatives don't want to be the world's police.
Have the new conservatives taken control of the Republican party? No, but we are trying to do so.
Since these "new conservatives" are socially liberal, they are not conservative, they are just new. Not even new, they are socially liberal Republicans or "populists".
Since these "new conservatives" are socially liberal, they are not conservative, they are just new.
It depends upon your definition of conservative. My definition is that conservatism is based upon the established and traditional practices in politics going back to the founders. The founding fathers believed in personal liberty and a limited government. I believe we should CONSERVE those values.
"Socially liberal" is really a misnomer. Purported 'social liberals' have waged a war on tobacco for the past 20 years. Purported "social liberals" have overseen the rise of national sex police over the last 20 years: http://www.city-data.com/forum/curre...ion-sting.html
Social liberals operate much like a boa constrictor. They give you the 'freedom' to exhale now and again, but every time you exhale they tighten their grip, and every time it becomes a little more difficult to inhale.
Since these "new conservatives" are socially liberal, they are not conservative, they are just new. Not even new, they are socially liberal Republicans or "populists".
Kindly explain what is "conservative" about forcing your beliefs on others and using the government as force to intrude on their private lives. Nothing conservative about that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez
It depends upon your definition of conservative. My definition is that conservatism is based upon the established and traditional practices in politics going back to the founders. The founding fathers believed in personal liberty and a limited government. I believe we should CONSERVE those values.
Yep! But I suppose in the mind of some, anyone that champions personal liberty, and staying out of other people's lives must be "liberal."
Great post Pedro! I wish the republican party would actually practice what they preach in terms of being the party of small government.
Much like the Democrat party, they have been taken over by egomaniacs that want to control others due to their belief that they know whats best. They also love their power and influence and will put that above doing their job of representing the best interests of their constituents.
Time after time, I place blame on our government and not a particular party. I do this because the government has become this organization, a creature, of bureaucrats and politicians that serve the growth and power of government. These politicians and bureaucrats in many cases believe that if they can get enough power, they can do what's right. The problem is, gaining that power becomes the focus so much, that it seems to become the goal of the game.
There are a number of Republicans that I have NEVER voted for are learned to NEVER vote for because it's quite obvious they are power seekers. I live in Texas; however, I have NEVER voted for Rick Perry. If he were on the 2016 ticket against Hillary, I still wouldn't vote for him. I wouldn't validate to idea of the establishment Republican party that this is the type of politician conservatives want.
Yep! But I suppose in the mind of some, anyone that champions personal liberty, and staying out of other people's lives must be "liberal."
It's hard for them not to believe that when many of the high profile personal freedom issues have Republicans taking the wrong stand based on them declaring they know what is "morally correct".
Over many decades, Republicans have destroyed the idea that conservatives are about personal liberty by making "I don't like people doing that" items part of their platform, either officially or unofficially.
Of course another problem is the press. The press likes controversy. The press likes to pick people based upon getting headline sound clips. The press goes to many of these Republican "leaders" for the same reason they go to black "leaders" such as Al Sharpton. Al Sharpton brings ratings but doesn't necessarily hold the same views on many issues as the typical black person. Many Republican "leaders" don't necessarily represent the views of the typical conservative. However, when you're on tv and in the papers all the time being billed as a "leader", it actually gives you quite a bit of power which makes you a defacto leader.
This country would be in much better shape if ideas led the agenda and not a party or a press designated "leader".
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,854 posts, read 10,425,928 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
In Holland it attracted the scum of Europe and in less than 10 years the number of crime families had gone from 3 to 93 and they brough all kinds of crime with them. Everything that is not bolted down disappears in Amsterdam.
The old "judge by the extremes" is a bogus argument, especially when you're still dodging the same question that every other ideologue avoids, who takes the "punitive' approach to drugs.
Namely if "decriminalizing" leads to "unintended consequences", so does that mean ending Prohibition was also a 'mistake' (and lord knows we've had enuff 'consequences' from that)?!
I used to be 100% pro-legalization of all drugs, since I'm libertarian-oriented. But as the US welfare state has expanded, and in particular after Obamacare passed, I have changed my mind. Now I as a taxpayer am on the hook for any medical costs of mj use. The CDC estimates that as much as 75% of health care costs are due to behavior.
When we had our state initiative here to legalize mj, I voted against it. Ten years ago I would have been overwhelmingly a 'yes' vote.
I do believe this is the messed up part MJ users never were just welfare people, now they show gang members and welfare recipients as the main users. Actually, those pot shop are being told to give a percentage of their pot away to poor people.......what is up with that?
I know pot smokers in CA that voted against legalizing it. All they want is to grow for personal use and not go to jail......where is the harm in this?
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