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Old 12-28-2016, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
9,555 posts, read 9,431,995 times
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A dissent.https://www.firstthings.com/web-excl...-human-dignity

 
Old 12-28-2016, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Toronto
6,754 posts, read 3,791,932 times
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Oh this topic again.

I got be involved in some policy review commitees regarding this topic. I think at this point I think the process is pretty well thought out. Even if someone requests it ... it actually takes sevearl weeks to actually get it to happen. There are lots of stages involved in this process. I have yet to have a patient request it though.

I think if you have seen what I see on a regular basis you can really understand why people need to have this choice. There is no cure or hope of a cure for many diagnosis and a horrible painful death are certain to go along with the diagnosis. I am very happy that this option is formally on the table as if I was a patient I would want to have this choice.
 
Old 12-28-2016, 06:58 PM
 
18,327 posts, read 10,398,747 times
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We will continue to go around and around on this if people cannot make the distinction between someone wanting and exercising the option and others choosing for them against their wishes as two polar opposites.


Religious jiggery-pokery has no place in the discussion other than from the individual involved him/herself.

Family wishes have no place in the discussion if the individual while of sound mind and body left clear and irrevocable instructions as to his/her wishes should it be a "no hope' situation.

Legal beagles acting on behalf of so-called "right to life" entities have no place in the discussion.

No one has any place in the discussion about the "right of choice" in this issue EXCEPT the individual themselves.
 
Old 12-28-2016, 07:33 PM
 
5,097 posts, read 2,492,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klmrocks View Post
Oh this topic again.

I got be involved in some policy review commitees regarding this topic. I think at this point I think the process is pretty well thought out. Even if someone requests it ... it actually takes sevearl weeks to actually get it to happen. There are lots of stages involved in this process. I have yet to have a patient request it though.

I think if you have seen what I see on a regular basis you can really understand why people need to have this choice. There is no cure or hope of a cure for many diagnosis and a horrible painful death are certain to go along with the diagnosis. I am very happy that this option is formally on the table as if I was a patient I would want to have this choice.
I don't think anyone would deny that there are people who would suffer less in death with euthanasia, the concern is that the restrictions on euthanasia could loosen over time - and that could open a Pandora's Box (depending on the prevailing government).
 
Old 12-29-2016, 12:26 AM
 
Location: Toronto
6,754 posts, read 3,791,932 times
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Default ......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke View Post
I don't think anyone would deny that there are people who would suffer less in death with euthanasia, the concern is that the restrictions on euthanasia could loosen over time - and that could open a Pandora's Box (depending on the prevailing government).
When I hear people worry about the opening of Pandora box etc on this topic I really wish I could grab them by the hand and let them see what I get to see on a daily basis.

I personally struggle at times with the immense moral guilt of helping people prolong the horrific stuffer of people that honestly would want to die if they could do it themselves. I just turly wish they don't hate me for it .... because it is their family that are the ones for their own selfish reasons that are forcing them to endure this cruelty and won't let go. Unless you see it first hand ... you just don't get it.
 
Old 12-29-2016, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
Here's an article on the position of Catholic and Mennonite hospitals in Manitoba. Faith-based hospitals reject euthanasia - Winnipeg Free Press
 
Old 12-29-2016, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Toronto
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Default ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
Here's an article on the position of Catholic and Mennonite hospitals in Manitoba. Faith-based hospitals reject euthanasia - Winnipeg Free Press

I have had this heated debate in several organizations I work with and as far as I am concern if it is legal and these hospitals receive public funding they have NO right to have their religious views impact care options for patients. On a daily basis I work with families making life and death decisions and my role as a health care provider is to provide the options and discuss the pros and cons without bias because it is not about what I want ... it is about what the patient wants. I personally would love to see sanctions in places for any health care oraganization that tries to hinder or interfer with offering these option to patients who request it.
 
Old 12-29-2016, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Vancouver
12,703 posts, read 8,775,044 times
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I am an acquaintance with one of the family in the story below.. The TORTURE this man went through is horrifying. The family's pain was insurmountable and made worse by this " Christian " organization.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...-death-request

However, it's a tough call if a hospital like St Paul's, which does a lot great work ( they were the main hospital in Vancouver for AIDS patients ) receives public funding one would expect them to do all legal procedures...but...this is where I have some empathy for the hospital. They are put in a tight place. They don't perform abortions either.

So I wonder if we can come up with a Canadian solution of compromise by having some of their funding removed and replaced within the same facility in a separate room, that is not considered part of St Paul's, but is an easy place to transfer patients once a hospital feels that they morally can not do a procedure.
I mean, we made a hospital room " The Netherlands " in Canada once so the heir to the throne could be said to be born " in The Netherlands ".

Pie in the sky I know and in this case, I truly believe the hospital should of found a way...but I'm no expert.
 
Old 12-29-2016, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Toronto
6,754 posts, read 3,791,932 times
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It will be interesting to see the process in action once on of my patients requests it. I have had patient's who have passed away a while ago and their families express they wish it was an option, but they died before it was legal and never really pushed that hard. I am not saying I hope people choose this option. I do really believe it is a personaly choice... but when you get to see the pain and horror some of my patients go through towards the end stages of their conditions .... I get why choice is important and feel it is cruel to not allow them option of a more dignified death and less painful dying process if this is what they want.

A perfect example is patients with a Huntington's dx. Most have seen what is going happen because they have seen the disease progress in other family members. They know what is coming and have likely had time to think about what they might want and a what point they may want a medically assisted death.

I have worked at faith based organizations too ... but I am loosing empathy for people forcing decisions of other people based on their own values. Ex If certain faiths are again homosexual marriages or homosexuality would they get to refuses services based on that. This is the slippery slope I am worried about. People working in health care need to try and be non-biasis. We are here to provide patients with options, choices and facts to help them make informed decisions. We should not be making choices for them unless they are non-responsive and it is a emergeny room situation. The person's decision is between them and god so they need to sick their noses out of it and be professional.
 
Old 12-29-2016, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,692 posts, read 6,545,845 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klmrocks View Post
It will be interesting to see the process in action once on of my patients requests it. I have had patient's who have passed away a while ago and their families express they wish it was an option, but they died before it was legal and never really pushed that hard. I am not saying I hope people choose this option. I do really believe it is a personaly choice... but when you get to see the pain and horror some of my patients go through towards the end stages of their conditions .... I get why choice is important and feel it is cruel to not allow them option of a more dignified death and less painful dying process if this is what they want.

A perfect example is patients with a Huntington's dx. Most have seen what is going happen because they have seen the disease progress in other family members. They know what is coming and have likely had time to think about what they might want and a what point they may want a medically assisted death.

I have worked at faith based organizations too ... but I am loosing empathy for people forcing decisions of other people based on their own values. Ex If certain faiths are again homosexual marriages or homosexuality would they get to refuses services based on that. This is the slippery slope I am worried about. People working in health care need to try and be non-biasis. We are here to provide patients with options, choices and facts to help them make informed decisions. We should not be making choices for them unless they are non-responsive and it is a emergeny room situation. The person's decision is between them and god so they need to sick their noses out of it and be professional.
Huntingtons is a terrible disease. However, wrt the slippery slope argument you reference, slippery slopes can work both ways. It is also possible for people to feel pressured into ending their lives because they feel they are a burden to their families. I don't disagree that a person's decision is between them and God/their conscience however that also applies to medical caregivers. They too have consciences and there may be things that they feel they cannot do. And really all anyone has is their conscience, which in some cases may be expressed as a belief in God. I just don't see how you can force people to go against their conscience. One's conscience is a higher morality than the law can legislate.
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