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Old 08-23-2017, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,494 posts, read 15,377,204 times
Reputation: 11930

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Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
Well, it's hard to track down a non-biased story about a patient identified only as "H" but honestly, nothing about this story sounds true as it is written. I wouldn't completely rule it out because weird things happen, but that would be an exception.
It just sounds full of holes. First off, does anyone not wonder what about other doctors? They don't have to stick with one. Also, the media. A story like this would of been huge news. The media would be all over it. I suspect the real story is that the medical opinion was correct, and the family just couldn't deal with it. After all, he died less than a week later.

IMO this Evangelical has an agenda...and the story may be twisted to suit it.

I'm also a little confused on his title. I've never heard of an Roman Catholic Evangelical Priest, and I was brought up Roman Catholic. So like a curious pup, I Googled the term to learn more.

I got this.


"Roman Catholic Evangelical Priest " - Google Search

Not a common or recognized term it seems. I know that there must be Catholic Evangelicals, but Roman Catholic is news to me.

 
Old 08-23-2017, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Canada
14,676 posts, read 14,774,103 times
Reputation: 34648
I'd never heard of that before either. I found this:

Quote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelical_Catholic

Catholics who in continuity with the long tradition of the Church and empowered by Pope Benedict XVI's proclaimed New Evangelization stress the centrality and salvific universality of the gospel of Jesus Christ and the necessity of proclaiming it, in many ways identifying with the evangelical movement
I agree that story is full of holes and it sounds twisted. I think if even part of the story is true that there has to be a lot more to it that the author deliberately left out because he doesn't want people to know about things that don't fit in with his own religious and political agenda. I do not believe the story about "H" as told, and as far as I understand of medical practice in Canada what he claims the doctor decided on is unethical, illegal (it practically amounts to kidnapping and murder) and goes against the Hippocratic oath that all physicians must take. I can't think of any doctors that would jeopardize their careers by making a judgement call in this manner:

Quote:

https://www.firstthings.com/web-excl...ure-war-stupid

...... H’s family had him admitted to the hospital earlier in the week under the assumption that the doctors there would treat the infection and then he would be able to return home. To their shock and horror, they discovered that the attending physician had indeed made the decision NOT to treat the infection. When they demanded that he change his course of (in)action, he refused, stating that it would be better if H died of this infection now rather than let cancer take its course and kill him later. Despite their demands and pleadings, the doctor would not budge from his decision. In fact he deliberately hastened H’s end by ordering large amounts of morphine “to control pain” which resulted in his losing consciousness as his lungs filled up with fluid. In less than 24 hours, H was dead.......

.
 
Old 08-23-2017, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Canada
7,241 posts, read 9,227,204 times
Reputation: 9828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci View Post
It just sounds full of holes. First off, does anyone not wonder what about other doctors? They don't have to stick with one. Also, the media. A story like this would of been huge news. The media would be all over it. I suspect the real story is that the medical opinion was correct, and the family just couldn't deal with it. After all, he died less than a week later.

IMO this Evangelical has an agenda...and the story may be twisted to suit it.

I'm also a little confused on his title. I've never heard of an Roman Catholic Evangelical Priest, and I was brought up Roman Catholic. So like a curious pup, I Googled the term to learn more.

I got this.


"Roman Catholic Evangelical Priest " - Google Search

Not a common or recognized term it seems. I know that there must be Catholic Evangelicals, but Roman Catholic is news to me.
I came up with the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
I'd never heard of that before either. I found this:



I agree that story is full of holes and it sounds twisted. I think if even part of the story is true that there has to be a lot more to it that the author deliberately left out because he doesn't want people to know about things that don't fit in with his own religious and political agenda. I do not believe the story about "H" as told, and as far as I understand of medical practice in Canada what he claims the doctor decided on is unethical, illegal (it practically amounts to kidnapping and murder) and goes against the Hippocratic oath that all physicians must take. I can't think of any doctors that would jeopardize their careers by making a judgement call in this manner:




.
I get the feeling the story was twisted either because the priest didn't fully understand what was going on or twisted it on purpose. Regardless of how one feels about assisted suicide, nothing about the story makes any sense to people who have experienced health care in Canada. I don't believe any of it.
 
Old 08-23-2017, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
17,330 posts, read 32,884,946 times
Reputation: 28898
(As an aside, I believe that assisted suicide should be allowed.)

I only read up to here, in the first paragraph:

Quote:
...the attending physician had indeed made the decision NOT to treat the infection. When they demanded that he change his course of (in)action, he refused, stating that it would be better if H died of this infection now rather than let cancer take its course and kill him later.
There was no point in reading further. This is utter bull-doody. Sure, the doctor *could have* said that it would be better to die of the infection, but he could not have refused treatment. A patient can refuse treatment, but the doctor cannot withhold it (unless it will harm the patient).

Maybe more was explained later in the "article" -- perhaps to refute my comment -- but I couldn't read beyond the middle of the first paragraph. Ridiculous. Nonsense.
 
Old 08-23-2017, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Canada
7,241 posts, read 9,227,204 times
Reputation: 9828
Quote:
Originally Posted by DawnMTL View Post
(As an aside, I believe that assisted suicide should be allowed.)

I only read up to here, in the first paragraph:



There was no point in reading further. This is utter bull-doody. Sure, the doctor *could have* said that it would be better to die of the infection, but he could not have refused treatment. A patient can refuse treatment, but the doctor cannot withhold it (unless it will harm the patient).

Maybe more was explained later in the "article" -- perhaps to refute my comment -- but I couldn't read beyond the middle of the first paragraph. Ridiculous. Nonsense.
No, nothing is made clearer later. Nothing about the whole story rings true.
 
Old 08-23-2017, 11:45 PM
 
9,345 posts, read 4,286,319 times
Reputation: 3022
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
As others have already stated this story sounds fake. Besides doctors have little or nothing to do with health care budgets and those running the budgets never have access to patients medical records. I would go as far as to say that the author is either mistaken or lying.

As well this story has nothing to do with doctor assisted suicide. Susan Rodriguez is the poster person for it, live until you are physically unable to preform the deed on your own. That is the humane way and much beer than lying about death and governments.
 
Old 08-24-2017, 12:50 AM
 
Location: Canada
14,676 posts, read 14,774,103 times
Reputation: 34648
I wonder if the author and the person who related the story to him could have criminal charges brought against them for telling and publishing such a blatantly false story in their attempt to put Canada in a bad light?

I also have to wonder what kind of people can be gullible enough to believe something so outrageously weird?


.
 
Old 08-24-2017, 02:19 AM
 
Location: Canada
7,241 posts, read 9,227,204 times
Reputation: 9828
I think maybe the story springs from the idea that Canada has "death panels" and that we can't choose our own doctor and have to ration health care. And there's so much disinformation around about health care that non-Canadians don't know what to believe. And maybe the priest was so caught up in his own anti abortion and anti-suicide points that he never bothered thinking it through before he wrote a blog post. I really hate to say how invented this story sounds because flat-out lying is not nice especially from a religious person.

1) We choose our own doctor. If "H" didn't like his treatment, why didn't he go to another doctor?

2) His family wasn't advocating for him? What kind of a family would allow this to happen without making a giant stink about it?

3) Patients can refuse treatment. Doctors can't refuse to treat.

4) As already pointed out, it has nothing to do with assisted suicide. I think the priest wanted to make a connection to a society that doesn't value life and it is supposed to illustrate the "slippery slope" argument. But he has devalued his own opinion in making up such a story.

5) Not naming names because you want to protect the privacy of the imaginary "H." Really? You wouldn't want to out the physician who denied treatment?

6) No, Canada does not kill it's old people because they are going to die anyway.
 
Old 08-24-2017, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,494 posts, read 15,377,204 times
Reputation: 11930
Quote:
Originally Posted by netwit View Post
I think maybe the story springs from the idea that Canada has "death panels" and that we can't choose our own doctor and have to ration health care. And there's so much disinformation around about health care that non-Canadians don't know what to believe. And maybe the priest was so caught up in his own anti abortion and anti-suicide points that he never bothered thinking it through before he wrote a blog post. I really hate to say how invented this story sounds because flat-out lying is not nice especially from a religious person.

1) We choose our own doctor. If "H" didn't like his treatment, why didn't he go to another doctor?

2) His family wasn't advocating for him? What kind of a family would allow this to happen without making a giant stink about it?

3) Patients can refuse treatment. Doctors can't refuse to treat.

4) As already pointed out, it has nothing to do with assisted suicide. I think the priest wanted to make a connection to a society that doesn't value life and it is supposed to illustrate the "slippery slope" argument. But he has devalued his own opinion in making up such a story.

5) Not naming names because you want to protect the privacy of the imaginary "H." Really? You wouldn't want to out the physician who denied treatment?

6) No, Canada does not kill it's old people because they are going to die anyway.
Glad I'm not the only one that smells a rat!
 
Old 08-24-2017, 02:47 PM
 
9,345 posts, read 4,286,319 times
Reputation: 3022
In addition Canadian doctors get paid for the services they provide not for saving a government money
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