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Old 02-11-2015, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
27,180 posts, read 17,504,476 times
Reputation: 15381

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spatula City View Post
What caused them?
Ford, Chevrolet and New York Edison. Didn't you get the memo?

 
Old 02-11-2015, 08:09 PM
 
3,792 posts, read 1,882,411 times
Reputation: 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spatula City View Post
Soot emissions aren't the largest driver in the current warming trend, but they probably did play a part in ending the little ice age and reducing them would be a good idea.
OK a probably started the warming trend is a good start to a reasonable conversation. If the soot input did end the little ice age, then the biggest part of the current warming trend would be feedback loop from starting the warming trend. Currently the input from CO2 would be second fiddle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spatula City View Post
The current warming trend can only be explained by CO2 from emissions.
Not true.
So do you see why people have a problem talking with you?
 
Old 02-11-2015, 08:50 PM
 
2,778 posts, read 1,420,302 times
Reputation: 2418
Quote:
Originally Posted by ContrarianEcon View Post
OK a probably started the warming trend is a good start to a reasonable conversation. If the soot input did end the little ice age, then the biggest part of the current warming trend would be feedback loop from starting the warming trend. Currently the input from CO2 would be second fiddle.
Every day it's a new theory, and every single one of them blames anything and everything EXCEPT CO2.

What's amazing about this one is that if it's true, it means that all of the warming since 1850 or so is the product of a runaway greenhouse effect that apparently consists entirely of methane, water vapor and nitrous oxide... since the massive amounts of CO2 emitted by humans is irrelevant therefore the relatively small amounts of CO2 released by feedback loops is also irrelevant.

Even if the evidence pointed to this, which it really really doesn't... your theory when taken with your insistence that CO2 isn't a major climate driver falls apart completely as without CO2, there is no explanation for the warming from the 1950s onwards. It is simply impossible that the Earth could have warmed that quickly if CO2 isn't the greenhouse gas we've thought it to be for the past century or so.

If you are willing to accept that CO2 is a climate driver, then the feedback loops caused by soot or the sun or simply by the end of the Little Ice Age don't rule out CO2 as a force that is further accelerating the existing feedback loops.

And soot isn't even close to being as significant a climate driver as CO2... the glaciers retreated in the 1850s but global temperatures didn't rise significantly until solar activity picked up at the beginning of the 20th century. This solar activity stabilized in the 50s... and still only accounts for around 30 percent of warming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ContrarianEcon View Post
Not true.
So do you see why people have a problem talking with you?
A moment ago you were whining about something the fake conspiracy that involved manipulating data, and then when you couldn't be right you started talking about this... and I'm the one who is hard to talk to? If I'm hard to talk to, it's probably because I actually try to understand the subject instead of repeating hoaxes and lies and conspiracies and attacks on liberals.

Fine yes... there are other drivers, but CO2 is the largest, most significant.

Figure SPM.2 - AR4 WGI Summary for Policymakers

So yeah, nothing you say is true... but I would never say it prevents other science deniers from blindly agreeing with you merely because you're on the same side.

Last edited by Spatula City; 02-11-2015 at 09:01 PM..
 
Old 02-12-2015, 12:17 AM
 
17,853 posts, read 12,182,050 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
And another big one;

6. It demands that the environment around the device not change over time, ie. increased concrete in the immediate area.

What percent of the weather stations meet these criteria?
You know what's hilarious? Adjustments (both up and down) are made for exactly those reasons to give valid data, yet deniers then scream "fraud! faking data!".
 
Old 02-12-2015, 12:24 AM
 
17,853 posts, read 12,182,050 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
There is no doubt in my mind the warmers cooked the data (pun intended) to gain more funding.
Yes, it's in your mind. In reality? No.
 
Old 02-12-2015, 12:29 AM
 
17,853 posts, read 12,182,050 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
The "actual scientists" to which you refer have been caught FALSIFYING DATA yet again.

Please explain to us exactly why "actual scientists" have to falsify data to prove their ridiculous claims.
Well no. They haven't. How many times does it have to be explained why adjustments to raw data from weather stations/satellites have to be made for the data to be valid and useful?
 
Old 02-12-2015, 12:31 AM
 
17,853 posts, read 12,182,050 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperJohn View Post
Where? That's a link to the main NOAA website. I still can't see anything where they say that global temperatures from the last interglacial were 10 degrees warmer than today.

Where does NOAA and the IPCC say this as you have claimed?

Perhaps you were mistaken? Or just making it up?
 
Old 02-12-2015, 12:35 AM
 
17,853 posts, read 12,182,050 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
They're not stating opinions. They're exposing the facts of falsified data.
No, they are stating uninformed opinions based on ignorance and conspiracy ideation.
 
Old 02-12-2015, 12:37 AM
 
17,853 posts, read 12,182,050 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
All of the above is still only theory and not fact. Its all very definite maybe no matter how many fools sign on.
To arrogantly say its not the sun or any other natural force is the height of stupidity.
No. It's evidence-based facts. To arrogantly claim it's not, is the height of wilful stupidity.
 
Old 02-12-2015, 12:42 AM
 
17,853 posts, read 12,182,050 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by ContrarianEcon View Post
OK let us look at some holes in the underlying "science" of global warming nuts.

Placebo effect. Placebo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia "Sometimes patients given a placebo treatment will have a perceived or actual improvement in a medical condition, a phenomenon commonly called the placebo effect." In the study quoted they found that CO2 was harmful to plants in the field at elevated concentrations. This very likely matched the belief of the people doing the research. Did the plants respond to the belief of the researchers or the CO2?

Changing the numbers to fit the expected result.

The cure has remained the same as the problem has shifted from coming ice age to too much heat, 1970's until now.

I just want a stable environment. A stable climate. The presence of ice provides a positive feed back loop, that tends to destabilize the environment. Heat it up and that feedback loop will go away.

Rule out the placebo effect in the plant CO2 research and then we can have a meaningful discussion.
Oh good grief.
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