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Old 02-10-2015, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
20,332 posts, read 10,448,010 times
Reputation: 7964

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Quote:
Originally Posted by no_more_handouts View Post
I'm not seeing it either, so maybe it's not so "clear as glass". Why don't you explain how that quote backs up your claim rather than using the "you just don't get it" cop out.
I thought it was just me not getting it. Sometimes I don't fully understand legaleese and was hoping BUU would explain it, but I got called dense for asking for help.
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Old 02-10-2015, 10:44 AM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,881 posts, read 8,661,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
but I got called dense for asking for help.
You still cannot seem to recount what is being said to you with integrity, eh?

Incidentally, in case you missed it, I posted a kindergarten break-down of the quoted line, just before your post.
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Old 02-10-2015, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
20,332 posts, read 10,448,010 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
The obtuseness continues.

Break it down:

An Act - a public declaration of legislation

to Translate Into Practical Reality - clearly indicating the intention to make the objective operational

the Right - making clear that this isn't a privilege or bonus but rather a basic right

of All Americans - not just those lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time

Who Are Able, Willing, and Seeking to Work - the only qualifications on "all" Americans is that they have to be able, willing and seeking to work - no other equivocations

to Full Opportunity for Useful Paid Employment at Fair Rates of Compensation...

Now: Which words didn't you understand?
Again, no where in the actual text of the law does it say that anyone will be required to hire someone of a specific skill set. If I am a widget maker and that is all I know how to do, but no business hires widget makers anymore they are not required to create a widget maker position for me. It is up to me to broaden my skill set to something that businesses need.

The title of bills are always crafted to sound nice (patriot act "An Act
To deter and punish terrorist acts in the United States and around the world,
to enhance law enforcement investigatory tools, and for other purposes.) but in the fine details they often to prove to be something different.
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Old 02-10-2015, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
20,332 posts, read 10,448,010 times
Reputation: 7964
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
You still cannot seem to recount what is being said to you with integrity, eh?

Incidentally, in case you missed it, I posted a kindergarten break-down of the quoted line, just before your post.
Seriously? You are going to attack me for asking for clarification?
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Old 02-10-2015, 10:56 AM
 
24,005 posts, read 11,930,026 times
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Stupid premise.

But I never met a liberal who didn't like a tax.
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Old 02-10-2015, 12:26 PM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,881 posts, read 8,661,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
Again, no where in the actual text of the law does it say that anyone will be required to hire someone of a specific skill set.
You are continuing to ignore what I'm saying, arguing against what no one has said, presumably because you do not have a defensible response to what I actually wrote. You seem utterly devoted to refusing to admit the responsibility that the act actually places on the monetary system. The Act's provisions are so much so the responsibility that maximum employment is now regularly heralded as part of the dual mandate of the Fed.

Last edited by bUU; 02-10-2015 at 12:42 PM..
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Old 02-10-2015, 12:28 PM
 
4,743 posts, read 3,730,374 times
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Okay, the purpose of taxes is not to protect the lamp and candle guy from the horrors of the light bulb.

it is not to help the shovelman, who has been replaced by a tractor.

it is not to help the horse care and stage coach makers with their jobs, after the car

and it certainly isn't to help the Piano manufacturers after they were replaced by radio


I'm sure there were people, looking forward, at each of the stages saying the same thing. Think of the children! think of the men supporting families! without the horse, how can they make ends meet!


You argue that no new jobs will be created. That you have this perfect roadmap for the future of humanity. You know all of the new industries, you know all the new innovations, and you are SURE this is the end.


Well - i'm sorry, but you don't have a crystal ball.

so nope - we aren't going to tax efficiency and innovation just to keep the shovel-man working


Quote:
Originally Posted by mattee01 View Post
We've all heard and seen jobs replaced by varying levels of automation. This wasn't such an issue, as new jobs replaced the old, until we started approaching the vortex. As machines start reaching the point where they can do anything we can, there will be a greater vaccum between the haves and the have nots. Even those with advanced degrees wouldn't be able to compete with machines that can do anything from mixing drinks to surgery, from driving to psychoanalysis. To prevent or at least reduce this, should we tax for every machine doing a job a person could do? Not only would it prevent unemployment, but companies that do it anyway will still be contributing. It would also depend upon the job performed. Anywhere from 15,000 to 1,000,000 a year.
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Old 02-10-2015, 12:39 PM
 
1,198 posts, read 1,575,041 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
The obtuseness continues.

Break it down:

An Act - a public declaration of legislation

to Translate Into Practical Reality - clearly indicating the intention to make the objective operational

the Right - making clear that this isn't a privilege or bonus but rather a basic right

of All Americans - not just those lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time

Who Are Able, Willing, and Seeking to Work - the only qualifications on "all" Americans is that they have to be able, willing and seeking to work - no other equivocations

to Full Opportunity for Useful Paid Employment at Fair Rates of Compensation...

So if someone is disabled - not applicable. If someone is unwilling - not applicable. If someone is not seeking work - not applicable. Otherwise - applicable. Our nation's responsibility to provide full opportunity to work to such Americans is declared and declared not as a lofty goal but as an intention for that goal to be made real.

Now: Which words didn't you understand?


The Act is no longer in effect. It hasn't been since 1990. Read up on your own material that you use as an argument before using it. The debate you're having is useless--because the legislation you promote doesn't exist anymore.
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Old 02-10-2015, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
20,332 posts, read 10,448,010 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
You are continuing to ignore what I'm saying, arguing against what no one has said, presumably because you do not have a defensible response to what I actually wrote. You seem utterly devoted to refusing to admit the responsibility that the act actually places on the government.
The law has lofty ideals, but in reality doesn't really mean much. The law allows for incentives, funding for training, etc, but if no business or job seeker takes advantage of them, then there is nothing the government can do.

Quote:
The Congress further declares and establishes as a national goal tne fulfillment of the right to full opportunities for useful paid employment at fair rates of compensation of all individuals able, willing, and seeking to work
Congress establishes a GOAL. Goals are good, but there should be a workable plan to reach that goal. I have a goal of retiring to the coast, but unless I take steps to reach that goal it won't happen.

Quote:
The Congress further declares that, although it is the purpose under the Full Employment and Balanced Growth Act of 1978 to seek diligently and to encourage the voluntary cooperation of the private sector in helping to achieve the objectives of such Act, no provisions of such Act or this Act shall be used, with respect to any portion of the private sector of the economy, to provide for Federal Government control of production, employment, allocation of resources, or wages and prices, except to the extent authorized under other Federal laws.
So government can encourage voluntary cooperation, but can't force any business to do anything in regards to the law.

Quote:
The Congress further declares that it is the purpose of the Full Employment and Balanced Growth Act of 1978 to maximize and place primary emphasis upon the expansion of private employment, and all programs and policies
such Act shall be in accord with such purpose. Toward this end, the effort to expand jobs to the
, full employment level shall be in this order of priority to the extent consistent with balanced growth—

"(1) expansion of conventional private jobs through improved use of general economic and structural policies, including measures to encourage private sector investment and capital formation;
Yep. the government can give incentives to businesses.

Like I said this law is a bunch of feel good fluff with no real teeth. The government has been giving incentives to businesses for decades, yet we still have an unemployment problem. IF my job is outsourced or taken over by a machine the government can not make a business keep me in my job. I can learn a new skill that may be valuable to an employer, but no one is guaranteed a job in their chosen field.
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Old 02-10-2015, 12:48 PM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,881 posts, read 8,661,852 times
Reputation: 8401
Maybe people cannot follow the link I posted above ...

Quote:
The Federal Reserve's monetary policy objective is to foster maximum employment and price stability.
FRB: Speech--Yellen, Labor Market Dynamics and Monetary Policy--August 22, 2014

No matter how you slice if, if you're refusing to admit that it is society's responsibility to ensure opportunities for full employment, you're simply wrong - both from the standpoint that it is society's responsibility and from the standpoint that it should be.
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