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Old 04-08-2015, 05:24 PM
 
26,304 posts, read 12,872,191 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
from your link:
Quote:
But as you can see, even that is problematic. There’s rather a Catch-22 situation there. If they can show that the money was stolen then it doesn’t have to be paid back.
Sooo...If Greece goes over, steals a ton of Euros from Germany......it doesn't have to be paid back? I mean hey, suddenly the German portion of the debt Greece owes....problem solved! It was stolen!

This is in regards to the forced loan.

In regards to the rest (war damages) nothing in that article settles that really. It says "oh hey Germany paid people for the labor camps, and being executed. It says NOTHING about damages done to Greece.

Basically the article is a pretty poorly done opinion article.

There are MUCH better articles out there with factual information on the justifications on both sides.
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Old 04-08-2015, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,376 posts, read 24,142,259 times
Reputation: 8873
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
from your link:
Sooo...If Greece goes over, steals a ton of Euros from Germany......it doesn't have to be paid back? I mean hey, suddenly the German portion of the debt Greece owes....problem solved! It was stolen!

This is in regards to the forced loan.

In regards to the rest (war damages) nothing in that article settles that really. It says "oh hey Germany paid people for the labor camps, and being executed. It says NOTHING about damages done to Greece.

Basically the article is a pretty poorly done opinion article.

There are MUCH better articles out there with factual information on the justifications on both sides.
And another link:

Greece is right to expose German loans hypocrisy | World news | The Guardian

Quote:
Like most of Europe, Greece was a beneficiary of the Marshall plan. The sums were so large they replaced the money due from Germany and more. In effect, Washington paid Berlin's debt.
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Old 04-08-2015, 06:12 PM
 
26,304 posts, read 12,872,191 times
Reputation: 12551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
Thats exactly what I meant by better articles. It at least mentions WHY the debts may not be valid. However again, it fails to go into the details. Even worse is that it conflates Greece assistance received from the Marshall plan, and the debts and damages owed by Germany.

It calls the sums so large that they paid germanies debts. Really? 1.2 billion. Thats how much Greece received.....From the US. Who viewed it as a way to fight communism.

Some fun facts also not mentioned, in 1960 Germany paid Greece 115 million marks in reparations, something that Greece at the time stated was a down payment. Not payment in full. So its not like this is a sudden and new demand, its along standing demand that Germany has ignored other then to acknowledge the debt to some degree in 1960 its argued.

This isn't as straightforward as you would think it was.

BTW damages that are listed by Greece:
Quote:
40,000 people executed
300,000 deaths from starvation
210,000 forced labour hostages in Germany
63,000 Greek Jews who were Holocaust victims
1,170 towns and villages destroyed
401,000 homes demolished
1.2 million made homeless
906 commercial ships sunk
129 bridges destroyed
298.753 tonnes precious metals exploited
1,058 plundered archaeological treasures
€10.3bn (£7.47bn) estimated worth of forced occupation loan Nazis extracted from the Bank of
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Old 04-08-2015, 09:41 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 13,024,310 times
Reputation: 5905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
As long as the German Jews who survived the Holocaust are still alive, Germany pays them. Once the last one dies then the reparations end.
Offer the same deal to Greece. Any Greek under 70 years old would STILL need to step and take care of business withOUT German money.
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Old 04-08-2015, 09:47 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 13,024,310 times
Reputation: 5905
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Thats exactly what I meant by better articles. It at least mentions WHY the debts may not be valid. However again, it fails to go into the details. Even worse is that it conflates Greece assistance received from the Marshall plan, and the debts and damages owed by Germany.

It calls the sums so large that they paid germanies debts. Really? 1.2 billion. Thats how much Greece received.....From the US. Who viewed it as a way to fight communism.

Some fun facts also not mentioned, in 1960 Germany paid Greece 115 million marks in reparations, something that Greece at the time stated was a down payment. Not payment in full. So its not like this is a sudden and new demand, its along standing demand that Germany has ignored other then to acknowledge the debt to some degree in 1960 its argued.

This isn't as straightforward as you would think it was.

40,000 people executed
300,000 deaths from starvation
210,000 forced labour hostages in Germany
63,000 Greek Jews who were Holocaust victims
1,170 towns and villages destroyed
401,000 homes demolished
1.2 million made homeless
906 commercial ships sunk
129 bridges destroyed
298.753 tonnes precious metals exploited
1,058 plundered archaeological treasures
€10.3bn (£7.47bn) estimated worth of forced occupation loan Nazis extracted from the Bank of

BTW damages that are listed by Greece:
I'd agree BUT; houses and railroads along with ships DO wear out and would need to be repaired or replaced anyway, especially after their civil war a couple years later. Too; NO Greek under about 70 years old can blame Hitler and his boys for screwing up in life.

Greek Civil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 04-08-2015, 09:55 PM
 
Location: Iowa, USA
6,553 posts, read 3,286,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scobby View Post
Not true,Germany still continue to pay other countries like israel,
Israel, being a Jewish state, is the only country that can ask for reparations and not deserve to get laughed at. But even so, Germany shouldn't be paying that much longer. Most Holocaust survivors are quite old, and there won't be any left within a couple of decades (or hardly any left). There's also plenty of political reasons behind this. I personally think Germany no longer should be expected to, but Israel really disagrees. Either way, that agreement is between Israel and Germany and Israel at least has an argument. Greece doesn't. They're ****ed up and go to Germany for a relatively minor thing they did to them half a century ago. France isn't still whining about it. In fact, Germans seem to have gotten over the fire bombing of Dresden. Greece easily could have turned out fine; their financial woes are not tied to WWII, therefore Germany need to be expected to pay Greece anything.
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Old 04-08-2015, 10:10 PM
 
4,654 posts, read 3,714,102 times
Reputation: 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
As long as the German Jews who survived the Holocaust are still alive, Germany pays them. Once the last one dies then the reparations end.
That's fine with me as long as Germany pays other countries victims of
nazism like Grece.
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Old 04-08-2015, 11:42 PM
 
26,304 posts, read 12,872,191 times
Reputation: 12551
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDusty View Post
In fact, Germans seem to have gotten over the fire bombing of Dresden.
Thats called being the loser in a war.

Also of note-Germany ALSO received money under the marshall plan....
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Old 04-09-2015, 02:11 AM
 
4,654 posts, read 3,714,102 times
Reputation: 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Thats called being the loser in a war.

Also of note-Germany ALSO received money under the marshall plan....
That's true too,tons of money
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Old 04-09-2015, 02:36 AM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,376 posts, read 24,142,259 times
Reputation: 8873
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Thats called being the loser in a war.

Also of note-Germany ALSO received money under the marshall plan....
Half of Germany did. But keep in mind that the Marshall Plan had one large string attached to it; It HAD to be spent on US products only.
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