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Old 02-11-2015, 01:14 PM
 
19,212 posts, read 12,242,558 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scobby View Post
Greece has 'moral obligation' to claim German WWII reparations: PM


Is Greece right to ask for reparation for Nazi Germany occupation during WWII ? Why or why not ?

Who's next ?

The entire Middle East, Iran, Afghanistan, Egypt and India need to seek "reparations" for Alexander the Great invading thier countries.
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Old 02-11-2015, 02:53 PM
 
5,532 posts, read 5,982,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ContrarianEcon View Post
with there own currency they can get full employment without out side investment. they just print there own money and put it to work running around inside their country putting everyone to work.
Maybe, but I say that it gives them choices that no sovereign state should remain without. Its much of what it means to be independent.
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Old 02-11-2015, 03:06 PM
 
24,086 posts, read 11,960,336 times
Reputation: 10252
Quote:
Originally Posted by scobby View Post
Greece has 'moral obligation' to claim German WWII reparations: PM


Is Greece right to ask for reparation for Nazi Germany occupation during WWII ? Why or why not ?

Who's next ?
No. They had their chance in 1945.
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Old 02-11-2015, 05:31 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 13,019,645 times
Reputation: 5905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Since I live in Portugal, I see it differently. The country is a mess, poverty and unemployment are rampant, solid state-run companies have been sold off to foreigners for little money, the health system is failing. Wealth is being transferred from the poor and middle class to the wealthy. Higher education - the foundation of a better future - has been slashed. Billions have been wasted on bad banks, while lots of people can't afford to pay food and utilities.
The Troika measures have caused more problems than solutions. And experts have predicted just that from the very beginning. It's almost as if the Troika ideology is actually meant to destroy those countries for decades to come. And it makes sense because Germany only booms as long as competition is weak. There are only so many buyers on this planet, and if, say, Iberian companies got a bigger market share, Germany's share and hence its entire economy including employment shrinks.

The whole notion that there is a right way to run economies and countries is weird. There is no success in this system unless others fail. So it is a bit ridiculous when the successful complain that others are failing. Germany itself is booming not least because they are exploiting their population. Just recently I read that the percentage of the population threatened by poverty is rising considerably. A lot of workers suffer from psychological and health problems because of exhaustion. There are more and more working poor.

Greece certainly has its own very specific problems, most of all tax avoidance on a huge scale. I don't know why that has become so much of a problem there. But since it is responsible for billions of euros in losses each year, it would have made sense to focus on that problem instead of slashing administrations, health, etc. Whether people like to hear it or not, there are not too many civil servants, despite the high number. They are all doing necessary work. And just because people are fired, that doesn't mean that the work gets less, it stays the same, hence more human errors and backlog. We have the same problem here, the remaining civil servants are drowning in work, which causes more burnout, i.e. even fewer employees to do the work.

Ireland has one big advantage, they are an English-speaking country, which has attracted international companies for decades, also helped by unfair tax incentives, which have only recently been stopped because other EU countries complained about those unfair practices. Still, those companies are already there now, and I doubt they will move to other countries just because of those tax changes.

In the long term I think Germany should leave the EU, it can survive on its own, and the rest of Europe will be doing much better without the simplistic and egoistic German manipulation.
You said you're in Portugal? Then it must be a problem with that country's culture why things are so messed up. I say that because Portugal has NOT been in any kind of serious war for over 100 years now since it never went through what Germany, Japan, S Korea and so on went through in the last 80 years. But ALL of those places are doing well compared to most of the world in 2015.
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Old 02-12-2015, 10:14 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,463 posts, read 19,337,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
You said you're in Portugal? Then it must be a problem with that country's culture why things are so messed up. I say that because Portugal has NOT been in any kind of serious war for over 100 years now since it never went through what Germany, Japan, S Korea and so on went through in the last 80 years. But ALL of those places are doing well compared to most of the world in 2015.
Since I am not Portuguese, I have wondered myself more than once, believe me. I have several theories:

- Portugal lost its colonies in the 70's, a million people fled from there to the mainland, quite a burden for such a small, poor country. And there were some rather dubious people among those returnees.
- It had a regime which some call dictatorship up until 1974, thus there were sanctions and what not.
- Portugal was a poor country for a long time, much longer than most other European countries; illiteracy was high, so naturally the economy resembled that, i.e. simple work was common, basically no industrial history like in the countries you mentioned (Germany and Japan were already industrialized before the war, they simply carried on where they had left off; one can bomb a country into the ground, but the people remain, with all their knowledge, heritage, etc.)
- Portugal has always been a rather elitist country, which still shows in the poor Gini index (the worst in Europe); like in most poor countries a few people try to grab as much as they can because they don't trust in and care about their countries and societies. Same as in Africa etc. So even today you still have filthy rich people while most of the country is relatively poor. The elite is mostly corrupt, there has been a network of those parasites for a long time. They have their fingers in important organizations, almost like the Mafia in Italy. Typical professions are lawyers, bankers, politicians, consultants, owners of construction companies, and so on.
- Related to that, there is a mentality of improvisation and muddling one's way through somehow. People don't think in the long term, they live here and now and behave accordingly. Most people don't seem to have a sense of perfectionism or excellence. Just yesterday I read that Portuguese scientists have developed a revolutionary solar cell technology, but they sold it off to Australia instead of turning into a business here.
- The country is cursed with Mediterranean climate which makes people try and make easy money on tourism, construction and so on.

Anyway, while all that is Portugal's fault, things from abroad have made things even worse, for instance the influx of billions of EU money over the decades, which lead to pointless construction, corruption and a recipient mentality and thus dependence; the Euro which is much too strong for the economy here (only recently has the Euro gotten weaker, but it is too late now, the damage was already done); the Troika programs, which made no sense, to the contrary, they destroyed people's motivation and perspective, the well educated are leaving, i.e. brain drain, which will make things even worse in the future. They should have done the opposite, i.e. focus on getting the economy back on track first and only then reducing debt.
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Old 02-12-2015, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,492 posts, read 51,418,971 times
Reputation: 24613
The Europeans must be doing something properly. Tanks have not crossed the Rhine or the Polish borders in over 70 years.

the entire problem with Greece and other less wealthy countries is a problem for the bankers. They were the people that lent these countries all the money. It was a mistake so the bankers should suffer for their stupidity.
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Old 02-18-2015, 11:03 AM
 
52,015 posts, read 41,851,918 times
Reputation: 32454
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
The Europeans must be doing something properly. Tanks have not crossed the Rhine or the Polish borders in over 70 years.

the entire problem with Greece and other less wealthy countries is a problem for the bankers. They were the people that lent these countries all the money. It was a mistake so the bankers should suffer for their stupidity.
1. Only because of the threat of nukes. Sad but true.

2. That doesn't fix Greece's problem because they propped up their entire economy and employment based upon borrowing money and then creating lots of do-nothing govt. jobs. If they stiff the bankers that problem doesn't go anywhere and they will still hit hard times. Whether the bankers ever get their money back is moot....Greece is screwed either way.
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Old 02-18-2015, 11:09 AM
 
3,792 posts, read 1,892,641 times
Reputation: 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
1. Only because of the threat of nukes. Sad but true.

2. That doesn't fix Greece's problem because they propped up their entire economy and employment based upon borrowing money and then creating lots of do-nothing govt. jobs. If they stiff the bankers that problem doesn't go anywhere and they will still hit hard times. Whether the bankers ever get their money back is moot....Greece is screwed either way.
1. no comment.

2. That is Greece's problem to work out. As long as they will get a hand out called a loan from somebody they will keep doing it. But some common sense would go a long ways for improving things over there.
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Old 02-18-2015, 04:33 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 13,019,645 times
Reputation: 5905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Since I am not Portuguese, I have wondered myself more than once, believe me. I have several theories:

- Portugal lost its colonies in the 70's, a million people fled from there to the mainland, quite a burden for such a small, poor country. And there were some rather dubious people among those returnees.
- It had a regime which some call dictatorship up until 1974, thus there were sanctions and what not.
- Portugal was a poor country for a long time, much longer than most other European countries; illiteracy was high, so naturally the economy resembled that, i.e. simple work was common, basically no industrial history like in the countries you mentioned (Germany and Japan were already industrialized before the war, they simply carried on where they had left off; one can bomb a country into the ground, but the people remain, with all their knowledge, heritage, etc.)
- Portugal has always been a rather elitist country, which still shows in the poor Gini index (the worst in Europe); like in most poor countries a few people try to grab as much as they can because they don't trust in and care about their countries and societies. Same as in Africa etc. So even today you still have filthy rich people while most of the country is relatively poor. The elite is mostly corrupt, there has been a network of those parasites for a long time. They have their fingers in important organizations, almost like the Mafia in Italy. Typical professions are lawyers, bankers, politicians, consultants, owners of construction companies, and so on.
- Related to that, there is a mentality of improvisation and muddling one's way through somehow. People don't think in the long term, they live here and now and behave accordingly. Most people don't seem to have a sense of perfectionism or excellence. Just yesterday I read that Portuguese scientists have developed a revolutionary solar cell technology, but they sold it off to Australia instead of turning into a business here.
- The country is cursed with Mediterranean climate which makes people try and make easy money on tourism, construction and so on.

Anyway, while all that is Portugal's fault, things from abroad have made things even worse, for instance the influx of billions of EU money over the decades, which lead to pointless construction, corruption and a recipient mentality and thus dependence; the Euro which is much too strong for the economy here (only recently has the Euro gotten weaker, but it is too late now, the damage was already done); the Troika programs, which made no sense, to the contrary, they destroyed people's motivation and perspective, the well educated are leaving, i.e. brain drain, which will make things even worse in the future. They should have done the opposite, i.e. focus on getting the economy back on track first and only then reducing debt.
I'm afraid you're right. Tho the BIGGEST problem is IMHO the culture there does NOT demand excellence like in Japan, China in 2015, most Jewish people, Black Africans in the US and UK and so on.

Cali USED to be the end of the rainbow here in the US about 50 years ago and; the weather there is the best in the mainland US but, so many good and some bad ideas started there and went across the US.
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Old 02-19-2015, 04:27 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,463 posts, read 19,337,013 times
Reputation: 8521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
I'm afraid you're right. Tho the BIGGEST problem is IMHO the culture there does NOT demand excellence like in Japan, China in 2015, most Jewish people, Black Africans in the US and UK and so on.

Cali USED to be the end of the rainbow here in the US about 50 years ago and; the weather there is the best in the mainland US but, so many good and some bad ideas started there and went across the US.
Both Portugal and Greece used to have their periods of greatness in the distant past. Today they are small countries, it doesn't really matter anymore whether they exist or not, there is no critical mass so to speak.
When you have no ambition and means to achieve something great, of course there is no excellence, you just try to muddle your way through.

Another aspect is geopolitics and war. Portugal is a very peaceful country now, whereas the countries you mentioned (Japan, China, Israel) are all paranoid, aggressive, and basically preparing for conflict. Unfortunately, war has always been a driving force behind development, just think of the Nazis' innovations.
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