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Old 02-10-2015, 01:44 PM
 
29,035 posts, read 15,300,370 times
Reputation: 19796

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
My challenge to all of you was crystal clear.

Explain why investors deserve preferential treatment over everyone else. I see no numerical evidence to support any of your claims... just whining about rich guys potentially losing money while engaging in speculation.
We did.

I posted links showing that investment drives the economy and that higher capital gains taxes reduces investing. You have not shown anything to counter that information.

Additionally, it's common sense. It's why countries, states and cities spend money trying to lure investment into their economies.

The only whining that is going on is the typical "It's not fair that they have so much money."
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Old 02-10-2015, 01:52 PM
 
77,900 posts, read 33,233,798 times
Reputation: 15573
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
We did.

I posted links showing that investment drives the economy and that higher capital gains taxes reduces investing. You have not shown anything to counter that information.

Additionally, it's common sense. It's why countries, states and cities spend money trying to lure investment into their economies.

The only whining that is going on is the typical "It's not fair that they have so much money."
Purchasing drives the economy just as much. Its all the same and should all be taxed the same.
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Old 02-10-2015, 01:57 PM
 
9,742 posts, read 9,301,909 times
Reputation: 2049
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
We did.

I posted links showing that investment drives the economy and that higher capital gains taxes reduces investing. You have not shown anything to counter that information.

Additionally, it's common sense. It's why countries, states and cities spend money trying to lure investment into their economies.

The only whining that is going on is the typical "It's not fair that they have so much money."
Not true. Look at this chart: Historical Capital Gains and Taxes

Investments are all over the map, regardless of tax rate. Common sense tells us that investors look toward gross earnings, not tax rates. A 10% gross return with a 50% tax rate is better than a 1% return with zero taxes. Common sense.
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Old 02-10-2015, 01:58 PM
 
9,742 posts, read 9,301,909 times
Reputation: 2049
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Purchasing drives the economy just as much. Its all the same and should all be taxed the same.
This is what many either forget or don't comprehend. The economy operates circularly, not linearly.
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Old 02-10-2015, 02:46 PM
 
7,846 posts, read 5,267,053 times
Reputation: 4025
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
We did.

I posted links showing that investment drives the economy and that higher capital gains taxes reduces investing. You have not shown anything to counter that information.
No you didn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
Additionally, it's common sense. It's why countries, states and cities spend money trying to lure investment into their economies.

The only whining that is going on is the typical "It's not fair that they have so much money."
"Common sense" coming from your opinion is not valid data.

Your claim is that increasing capital gains taxes reduces investment. I want proof. History says your claim is bull****.
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Old 02-10-2015, 03:04 PM
 
29,035 posts, read 15,300,370 times
Reputation: 19796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
Your claim is that increasing capital gains taxes reduces investment. I want proof. History says your claim is bull****.
Whenever anybody posts articles or data, you never address it, you just ignore it or claim that it's wrong.

Well, you also love to scream "strawman".

If you feel the link I posted to the article that explains that investment drops when capital gains taxes increase, explain precisely what is not correct in it.
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Old 02-10-2015, 03:10 PM
 
29,035 posts, read 15,300,370 times
Reputation: 19796
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
This is what many either forget or don't comprehend. The economy operates circularly, not linearly.
How much is essential spending and how much is discretionary spending?
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Old 02-10-2015, 03:16 PM
 
77,900 posts, read 33,233,798 times
Reputation: 15573
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
Whenever anybody posts articles or data, you never address it, you just ignore it or claim that it's wrong.

Well, you also love to scream "strawman".

If you feel the link I posted to the article that explains that investment drops when capital gains taxes increase, explain precisely what is not correct in it.
Its incomplete or cherry picking at the best.

My scenario. All income is taxed exactly the same because, well, its income. We have a simple one page form.

Line 1: income
Line 2: Tax
Line 3: Amount paid.
Line 4: Refund or amount due.

Now I do not know what the numbers will be exactly but most likely capital gains go up a bit and wage taxes drop. Let's say the rate is 18%.

Yes capital gains increased but wage roll taxes dropped considerably. People spend more. Business does better. Your investment does better. So even though the tax bumped some you are still ahead.
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Old 02-10-2015, 03:43 PM
 
29,035 posts, read 15,300,370 times
Reputation: 19796
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Its incomplete or cherry picking at the best.

My scenario. All income is taxed exactly the same because, well, its income. We have a simple one page form.

Line 1: income
Line 2: Tax
Line 3: Amount paid.
Line 4: Refund or amount due.

Now I do not know what the numbers will be exactly but most likely capital gains go up a bit and wage taxes drop. Let's say the rate is 18%.

Yes capital gains increased but wage roll taxes dropped considerably. People spend more. Business does better. Your investment does better. So even though the tax bumped some you are still ahead.
To be clear here, if we went to a flat tax, that was below 25%, I'd be ok with having capital gains taxed the exact same as income.

I would cheer and applaud

Line 1: income
Line 2: Tax
Line 3: Amount paid.
Line 4: Refund or amount due.

Assuming it didn't go above 25%.
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Old 02-10-2015, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Upstate NY
35,096 posts, read 10,364,516 times
Reputation: 33009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
Explain why the hell financial speculation (which produces NOTHING) deserves favorable tax rates compared to earned income.

Explain why it should be taxed at all.
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