Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Corporations fund politicians to give corporations tax breaks.
That as crooked as can be.
Where is your complaint about corporations doing this to a greater extent?
I complain about it all the time in a lot of threads.
Is your stance that since politicians are able to provide corporations with benefits that they should be able to do it for unions as well?
My stance is that politicians shouldn't be allowed to do it for either. What is your stance?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated
I don't care what your motive is. My stance is clear. Your proposals are irrational because you willfully deny the race to the bottom scenario. My proposals are one of the following choices:
A) Livable minimum wage ($15 / hour or higher)
B) Mandated union membership
Take your pick. Both aren't needed, but one of the choices are.
Neither are needed.
You can raise the minimum wage to $10,000,000,000 an hour, but that doesn't change a thing. Everybody who makes more than minimum wage will see their pay increase and at the end of the day, the minimum wage worker will still be the lowest paid worker, and he'll be buying his $5,000,000,000 happy meal for lunch.
I'm assuming you'll never understand this concept no matter how many times it is explained to you.
In regards to mandated union membership, why are you want to force people to allow others to make decisions for them?
Oh that's right, you feel that personal freedom should be forfeit for the good of the group.
With the history Illinois has in the political arena, I wouldn't be bragging too much about them.
Maybe you recall the Daley family. And where are the LAST 2DEM governor's?
Illinois had the distinction of having 2 former Governors serving prison sentences at the same time. One was a Democrat and one was Republican.
A Republican has held the Governor's office in 21 out of the past 30 years.
Public unions have made certain the legislate has remained a Democrat majority.
Rauner has also proposed banning political donations by public unions. It would have been swell if he took it a step further and banned donations from out of state interests.
Where are all the freedom of choice loons about health insurance? Car insurance?
Paying for mandated prudence...
We're still here. People shouldn't be forced to purchase products. Mandating car insurance is OK though as you don't HAVE to own a car. Many people opt not to own cars and that's just fine by me.
YES. The consequences (feudalism) are too dire to allow otherwise.
Have you ever worked in the public sector? I do..... AFSCME is a joke! We have non union guys making more then the AFSCME guys with better benes and we don't pay dues to anybody.....
I live in Illinois and the unions here are corrupt. At one of my former jobs they protected incompetent workers and also these workers were way overpaid. In many cases were paid more than their supervisors with less experience and education. My mom was forced to join one of the unions and even though she was only paid minimum wage (and was paid minimum wage for 2 years)she had to pay union dues. Think that is fair? she ended up paid less than minimum wage. My dad was in the Teamsters and when his boss decided to fire him he made up stories and paid them so they never defended him. My grandpa was in management in Ford and part of his job was to deal with union bosses. He said they were mafia men and he was never a liar.
So yeah, unions need to be abolished. They had a purpose but have become greedy and only to scam people for their political agenda.
Why do you believe anyone should be forced to allow another to bargain for them?
I don't think you understand how state government employment works.
If your state does not have collective bargaining, you are not allowed to negotiate individually. The state can make unilateral changes to your contract without your consent in that situation.
Missouri banned collective bargaining for public employees, which did result in the lowest paid public employees in the country, but also resulted in the atrocious state of our police forces, transportation, public services, etc.
I made the mistake of taking a public sector job here. After I was hired, my employer added a 12 month nationwide non-compete clause (technically an "ethics clause", but functionally a non-compete). For 12 months after I leave employment, I cannot work for any other government agency nor can I work for any private sector employer in my field.
Shortly after that, they eliminated merit raises permanently. Cost of living raises were eliminated in the mid-80s. We do get occasionally non-merit raises, a total of 4% since 2005. But for the most part, employees here are now trapped by the non-compete clause and, since individual bargaining is banned, cannot negotiate for raises. You can imagine how motivated employees are here.
Without collective bargaining, the government has all the power against its own employees; and the end result is not a bargain for the public.
Illinois is already in the "****ter". The state has the worst credit and pension issues in the country. It's also growing and adding jobs at an anemic pace.
Its economy is far better than it's neighbors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez
I complain about it all the time in a lot of threads.
Is your stance that since politicians are able to provide corporations with benefits that they should be able to do it for unions as well?
My stance is that politicians shouldn't be allowed to do it for either. What is your stance?
My stance is against both.. but I have no disdain for unions. They are necessary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez
Neither are needed.
You can raise the minimum wage to $10,000,000,000 an hour, but that doesn't change a thing. Everybody who makes more than minimum wage will see their pay increase and at the end of the day, the minimum wage worker will still be the lowest paid worker, and he'll be buying his $5,000,000,000 happy meal for lunch.
Minimum wage has nothing to do with inflation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez
I'm assuming you'll never understand this concept no matter how many times it is explained to you.
In regards to mandated union membership, why are you want to force people to allow others to make decisions for them?
Oh that's right, you feel that personal freedom should be forfeit for the good of the group.
Irrelevant. Unions don't work if they are voluntary, because desperate workers not in the union become more attractive to employers. They are willing to do the same job for less pay. You see no problem with that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom
Illinois had the distinction of having 2 former Governors serving prison sentences at the same time. One was a Democrat and one was Republican.
A Republican has held the Governor's office in 21 out of the past 30 years.
Public unions have made certain the legislate has remained a Democrat majority.
Rauner has also proposed banning political donations by public unions. It would have been swell if he took it a step further and banned donations from out of state interests.
Yep. Not a peep about his corporate donors. Corporations making donations is always good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by my54ford
Have you ever worked in the public sector? I do..... AFSCME is a joke! We have non union guys making more then the AFSCME guys with better benes and we don't pay dues to anybody.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez
I don't believe they should be "abolished". I think anyone should be free to join a union or choose not to join a union.
Union membership has to be mandatory for unions to have any pull.
If the citizens in the district want better teachers and schools, they can vote to raise taxes, in the form of bonds, to provide extra money to their district to pay teachers more.
I think you need a lesson on politics. In most states, "the citizens of the district" cannot vote to raise taxes or pass bonds on their own (in Missouri, not even the local government can do it, you have to get permission from the state legislature, which it has not done for any local district for decades). And I know of no states where bonds can be used to pay teachers, nor any state where citizens can directly vote on teacher salaries.
I don't believe they should be "abolished". I think anyone should be free to join a union or choose not to join a union.
I oppose all public unions.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
....
