U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-11-2015, 05:53 AM
 
Location: Kent, Ohio
3,424 posts, read 2,113,995 times
Reputation: 1638

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
The point is, this is a really dumb story. Not enough information to really have an opinion. Looks to be propaganda.
I agree. It does, at the very least, seem to be overblown. One thing I did find interesting, however, was a host of reactions - in a different C-D thread on this same topic - from people claiming that somehow this story should teach liberals a lesson. Apparently liberals are in denial about something, but they never clarified what liberals are in denial about insofar as this story is concerned. The basic theme was that liberals "need a dose of the real world."

In any case, whether the story is bogus, or not, I think my reaction is relevant to this thread, so I'll paste it here:

Well, I say good for him for making an effort, and for not backing down. A "dose of the real world" just means that some idiot thugs beat him up and used religious differences as an excuse for violence. In reality there is no reason that these religions can't coexist. On any given day there are millions of instances of people of radically different belief systems coexisting without violence. These millions of instances do not make the news, of course. In general, only the instances of violence will make the news. But the millions of instances of peaceful coexistence are no less real, just because there are instances of violence as well.

Football (aka, soccer) fans in Europe often erupt into violence at games. Does this mean that people of different European countries can't coexist? No. It just means that a foolish tradition of violence has taken hold, and it might be hard to get rid of. Various traditions of violence between people of different religions and cultures are historically much older, and thus more entrenched in some people's minds, and thus very hard to change, but there is hard empirical evidence of the possibility of peaceful coexistence inherent in every act of kindness between people of different religions. Every warm smile, every peaceful exchange of cash at a grocery store, and every hug between families at an interfaith wedding proves that hatred is not the only option.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-11-2015, 05:59 AM
 
3,871 posts, read 1,911,058 times
Reputation: 5380
I see a lot of "coexist" bumper stickers. I get the cross, star of David, muslim symbol, but what are the other ones?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-11-2015, 06:51 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
34,673 posts, read 33,676,768 times
Reputation: 51867
For cryin' out loud, do you think he dislocated his own shoulder? What's it going to take for you to believe your lying eyes?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-11-2015, 06:51 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
8,090 posts, read 4,711,991 times
Reputation: 2877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaylenwoof View Post
Well, I say good for him for making an effort, and for not backing down. A "dose of the real world" just means that some idiot thugs beat him up and used religious differences as an excuse for violence. In reality there is no reason that these religions can't coexist. On any given day there are millions of instances of people of radically different belief systems coexisting without violence. These millions of instances do not make the news, of course. In general, only the instances of violence will make the news. [b]But the millions of instances of peaceful coexistence are no less real, just because there are instances of violence as well.

I actually disagree somewhat.


The problem with people who have radically different belief systems/cultures, is that a nation has laws. And a nation's laws are a reflection of the values of the people. Many times laws can conflict with a person's personal convictions so strongly that the law becomes absolutely intolerable.

In the case of Islam, their beliefs tend to be stronger than the beliefs of many other groups. And more importantly, their holy book requires stronger convictions and punishments for those who break its teachings. In essence, in order for them to coexist, they actually have to go against the teachings of their religion.


Look at it like this, lets pretend you dumped the entire population of Afghanistan into France tomorrow. What would happen? Would they coexist?



There are certainly some groups who can peacefully coexist, and there are some who just can't.


Look at it like this, there are about 200 countries in the world. Is that the right number? There were only about 60 countries post WWII. So about 140 countries have been created in the last 60+ years.

Why were they created? Were too many created? Or too few?


If people can all coexist so wonderfully, why don't we just have a single nation? Doesn't that sound like a great idea? What is stopping there from being only a single-world nation? Are you looking forward to voting in the same election as the Chinese and Russians?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-11-2015, 07:08 AM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
18,151 posts, read 10,132,898 times
Reputation: 7046
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
So this French street artist paints "Coexist" on a wall. He uses the Muslim moon for the C, the Jewish star of David for the X and a Christian cross for the T. Pretty clever, I think. But...

"It was very offensive and local Muslims demanded he take it down. Four Muslims in Porte Dorée (the Golden door), a ghetto east of Paris, beat artist Combo after he refused to take down his Coexist street art. Combo suffered a dislocated shoulder, bruises and a black eye."

French Artist’s Calls For Peace End in Brutal Beating By Local Muslims | The Gateway Pundit

There's a photo of the art with the story. So much for coexisting.
The "Gateway Pundit"? A far right wing blog that writes stories attributing other right wing blogs? I couldn't find the source for this story, but the most believable source I did find for it was "Le Monde". They have always had a difficult time telling fact from opinion since they launched in 1944.

Sorry. I don;t believe a word of it.

The Gateway Pundit - RationalWiki
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-11-2015, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
20,331 posts, read 10,442,079 times
Reputation: 7964
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troyfan View Post
I see a lot of "coexist" bumper stickers. I get the cross, star of David, muslim symbol, but what are the other ones?
C - Muslim crescent
O - is a peace sign
E- combines the male and female symbols
X- Star of David
I- Wiccan pentacle tops the I
S- is a yin yang symbol from a couple of different Chinese philosophies
T- Christian cross.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-11-2015, 08:08 AM
 
16,553 posts, read 11,491,111 times
Reputation: 4230
More Islam apologists I see.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-11-2015, 08:33 AM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,908 posts, read 10,072,115 times
Reputation: 7456
Seems to me the blame lies on the radical thugs that beat him up! Seems to me that these nutjobs have some serious mental issues given that they found what was meant as a sign of peace to be offensive!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-11-2015, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Kent, Ohio
3,424 posts, read 2,113,995 times
Reputation: 1638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
In the case of Islam, their beliefs tend to be stronger than the beliefs of many other groups. And more importantly, their holy book requires stronger convictions and punishments for those who break its teachings. In essence, in order for them to coexist, they actually have to go against the teachings of their religion.
I suppose you're right. This is a tough nut to crack. I would love to hear the perspective of some devout Muslims about this. Is there really no reasonable way to interpret their scriptures in such a way that peaceful coexistence is possible? If anyone reading this thread has some deep insights into this, I love to hear some options. Of course I'd point out that Christians have used the Bible to justify violence. Generally speaking, the fact that some people can use a text as an excuse for violence does not imply that the text can only be interpreted in that way.

I suppose we can realistically expect that here will always be violent people who will use religious ideas as an excuse for violence. I don't think this means that radically different religions, in general, cannot peacefully coexist. Violent radicals of some sort will probably always exist. My primary concern is to find the best way to react to these incidences of violence. I certainly agree that we should not be actively pushing groups together just for the sake of packing diverse people into close proximity. But, realistically, diverse groups are already in close proximity, and this trend will probably continue, whether anyone actively pushes for more diversity, or not. So - at least in some areas of the world - we really have no good choice other than to find ways to coexist. I've already posted about this in the other thread, but I'll say it again:

As I see it, the primary actual cause of violence is virtually never religious or cultural differences, per se. These differences can act as excuses for violence, and they can, in some cases, "fan the flames", so to speak, but I would argue that in many instances of violence, the primary underlying cause is violence. Someone who is a victim of violence often has a tendency to become violent. Other primary causes of violence are greed and/or dehumanizing stereotypes. Most Americans who owned slaves were not violent toward blacks out of vengeance - in most cases, the blacks who they enslaved had never done anything that required retaliation. Slavery was needed in order to make money, plain and simple. Women weren't burned at the stake during the years of the Inquisition because they committed violence; they were burned because they were dehumanized and thought to be "sleeping with the devil" etc.

I don't think the best response to violence is to commit more violence, nor is it a good idea to reinforce stereotypes, nor does it help to dehumanize a category of people, nor is it useful to wail and moan about the hopelessness of ever trying to get along with "those people." Pessimism ensures failure. Optimism certainly can sometimes amount to false hope, but at least it is not a guarantee of defeat right off the bat.

I think the only rational response to violence is to do our best to stop future instances of violence by trying to find a non-violent response - a response that does not involve perpetuating hatred and dehumanizing stereotypes.

Last edited by Gaylenwoof; 02-11-2015 at 08:50 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-11-2015, 08:47 AM
 
51,887 posts, read 41,774,553 times
Reputation: 32369
Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
Yeah, and apparently this whole thang originated just from repeating what this artist "said" on his Facebook page, only to be further "embellished" by all the usual rightwing suspects… the Daily Caller, Gateway Pundit, Jihadwatch, etc., who simply repeat each other's sensationalized "news" over and over again. Kinda like all those dopey emails that birthers and other gullible wingnuts like to send around, without doing even the simplest 'fact check' ("Look, new proof that Obama is a muslim space alien!").

The Guardian: French street artist Combo says he was beaten up
Ironically if a minority got beat by right wing religious nuts in this country and someone showed up claiming they'd made it up or brought it upon themselves by their actions.....many people here would call them a racist apologist.

#TawanaFergusonZimmerman
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top