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It's only an offense to not follow those suggestions IF not doing so results in a child gaining access and harming themselves or others. That's beauty the in this law.
Nope, it is an offense to not follow those suggestions if not doing so results in a child violating the law, there is no requirement for them to cause harm to themselves or others. Displaying a firearm in a "careless manner" (whatever that means) is not harming themselves or others (if they cause harm it's covered by a different clause in the bill), constructive possession of a handgun without adult supervision is not harming others (but is the commission of a crime and therefore is covered by this bill).
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88
Look, it's really simple. You can store your firearms any way you wish, but if your chosen method results in a child gaining access and doing harm, you'll be held accountable. You can leave your gun loaded on the living room floor right next to where your kid watches SpongeBob, and if your kid never uses it to harm themselves or someone else, you haven't committed any crime.
You have according to that bill if there is no adult supervision, didn't you know that?
Look I understand, I was young, and impressionable and thought that, you know, maybe a few common sense regulations might just be of benefit in curbing accidents and inherent dangers of gun ownership. I read some bills, and I saw how they were enacted, and then I saw how they were amended, and I discovered one small simple fact. What I thought was plain English and clearly understandable as written in the bills had many consequences that were not in the bills, because any change in the law is not isolated, it has to blend with current law, and there may seem on the surface to be nothing inherently evil in those bills, but once blended with the law they became things of evil. Even when they were not, 4-5 years later there was an amendment or change that caused them to be far more serious than they first appeared. You cannot read any bill in isolation and derive how it will effect the current law, you need to also read similar, parallel, referenced law and definitions before you draw any conclusions as to how it will effect the current law.
I recommend you look up Alien Firearms Licenses in Washington State, to see how a seemingly benign law can turn really nasty really quickly. While it applied to non-Citizens, that does not take away from the effects of the law, nor that the impacts were felt by US citizens who faced a choice to remove all of their firearms from their homes, or risk their spouse/partners being charged with a Class C Firearms felony (which is a deportable offense).
It's not that gun owners are all hardliners by choice, it's that all gun owners become hardliners or stop caring, because they see what happens when what appears to be common sense law is mixed with the current laws, and left to mature for 5-10 years. If they still care about owning guns, they become hardline, if they don't care, they don't care.
How about the simpler concept of blaming the person that actually misused the gun for the damages done? All this is legal nonsense so the lawyers know who to sue and the antigun folks know that "something is being DONE to prevent another Sandy Hook tragedy.
Come on now , that is just too logical and actually makes sense. Just jump on board with this new bill, it's for the greater good of society.
If someone under the age of 18 broke in to your home and stole your firearm, no matter how it's kept, you would be exempt.
"""(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply if:
(c) The child's access to the firearm was obtained as a result of an unlawful entry;"""
No. You are only guilty of a crime if your child uses the gun to harm themselves, others, or to commit a crime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlandochuck1
1. It seems to me that if you lock your home, then your guns are already under lock and key to burglars, so you would not be liable.
2. You would not be guilty if your 16 or 17 year old does nothing negligent or illegal.
OK, so they've apparently carved out an exception for cases where a minor obtains the gun by breaking and entering - that resolves my concern about that point.
Regarding the 16 or 17 year old child, I thought one of the clauses provided that the gun owner would be guilty of breaking this law if the minor obtained access to the gun and then caused it to discharge. In and of itself that not an illegal activity. As others have mentioned there are many stories of minors being home along and using their parent's firearms to defend themselves. If the child shoots at a home invasion perp is the parent now guilty of breaking this law?
You CAN be charged with a crime if you negligently leave your keys laying around and your five year old plows the Sedan in to the side of the neighbors house.
You can be charged with neglect if something like this happens. Of course, there's always nuances in different situations to be considered. Not every case should result in charges being brought.
You can be charged.
I'm sure you can be charged, depending on the circumstances of the specific situation.
Those words have never come out of my mouth, and I've argued against that kind of logic many times.
The OP doesn't state that the gun owner is responsible for what happens when someone does is injured by a firearm they own, it specifically states "unauthorized access". Which is quite different from what you state. To use the same argument, leaving ANY household product where they might be accessed by an unauthorized person should be a criminal offense. Why single out firearms?
Honestly, the whole bill is a feel good measure with no consideration for the impacts, which WA is famous for. Accidental gun deaths are negligible, IIRC less than 600 a year. Far bigger things to worry about. As far as holding the owner responsible if a firearm is stolen...why would you blame the victim of a crime? Do you hold a rape victim as responsible for wearing a short skirt? Or a homeowner if their house is burglarized? Or if someone's car is stolen and the criminal gets in an accident? Of course not-a rational person blames the criminal.
By your logic...I had friends that, years ago, left the cord of a deep fryer routed close to the edge of a countertop. Their young child pulled it over on themselves and was horrible burned. Should they be prosecuted for that act? It was certainly preventable and not...responsible.
Last edited by Toyman at Jewel Lake; 02-12-2015 at 08:21 AM..
The OP doesn't state that the gun owner is responsible for what happens when someone does is injured by a firearm they own, it specifically states "unauthorized access". Which is quite different from what you state. To use the same argument, leaving ANY household product where they might be accessed by an unauthorized person should be a criminal offense. Why single out firearms?
Honestly, the whole bill is a feel good measure with no consideration for the impacts, which WA is famous for. Accidental gun deaths are negligible, IIRC less than 600 a year. Far bigger things to worry about. As far as holding the owner responsible if a firearm is stolen...why would you blame the victim of a crime? Do you hold a rape victim as responsible for wearing a short skirt? Or a homeowner if their house is burglarized? Of course not-a rational person blames the criminal.
By your logic...I had friends that, years ago, left the cord of a deep fryer routed close to the edge of a countertop. Their young child pulled it over on themselves and was horrible burned. Should they be prosecuted for that act? It was certainly preventable and not...responsible.
You can't use that type of logic with firearms though. You know, because a firearm is an evil weapon of mass destruction that is only designed to kill.
This law is so common sense that every single one of us, pro-gun, anti-gun, and everyone in between should support it and use it as a model for the entire country. The NRA should support this Bill. Gun Owners of America should support this Bill. The only people on here thus far that I've seen any criticisms from are either those who A.) have not read it, or B.) do not correctly understand it's provisions.
"This law is so common sense that every single one of us, pro-gun, anti-gun, and everyone in between should support it and use it as a model for the entire country"
Thank YOU for telling the rest of what to think.
YOU think it is common sense, MANY of us don't.
You are entitled to YOUR opinion and we are entitled to OURS.
Bad law. Children need access to guns to protect themselves too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ih2puo
Conservatism is a mental disorder
"The Blaze reported this week that the 11-year-old girl was home alone in the afternoon, when a man pulled into the driveway of the Lapeer County, Michigan, residence and started knocking on all the doors to see if anyone was home. When no one answered, the suspect forced his way into the residence, the Lapeer County Sheriff’s Department said. Realizing she was in danger, the girl fled to a closet inside a bedroom and armed herself with a shotgun.[LEFT]
Read more: http://www.ammoland.com/2015/02/elev...#ixzz3RStY7ni3
How would YOU like to be the one to explain to the parents of this 11 year old WHY their daughter was raped and killed because her father followed YOUR advice and DIDN'T have the loaded shotgun in the closet that she was able to get and defend herself?
And as they say, "When you have nothing of value to say, throw out insults"
I'm in total agreement. Unfortunately, parents that are this irresponsible will not change because of a law.
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