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Old 02-13-2015, 11:58 AM
 
36,470 posts, read 15,973,573 times
Reputation: 8282

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
Yeah, wingnuts LOVE to reference the U.S. Constitution, but conveniently IGNORE the parts they don't like. Another example: The Constitution enshrines the right of citizens to own guns - fair enough. But the wingnuts conveniently IGNORE the REASON:

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

The REASON for maintaining the RIGHT to bear arms was not so every idiot out there could have a gun collection or go hunting or even deter criminals - it was SO THAT HE/SHE WOULD BE PART OF A WELL REGULATED MILITIA available in times of war. Somehow THAT part is COMPLETELY IGNORED by the wingnuts. Based on a LITERAL interpretation of the Constitution it could be argued that ONLY THOSE who are part of A WELL REGULATED MILITIA (as for example the National Guard) should be allowed to own guns - but wingnuts somehow choose to not take THAT part of the Constitution LITERALLY.

As I said, they pick and choose what parts of the Constitution they wish to enshrine and what parts they choose to ignore.

Ken
Thank you so much for your very intelligent explanation of what the Founding Fathers meant.

I mean who should we listen YOU or men like Thomas Jefferson?

No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
> Thomas Jefferson

I know, he didn't know what he was talking about.
when he wrote the Declaration of Independence!
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Old 02-13-2015, 12:01 PM
 
36,470 posts, read 15,973,573 times
Reputation: 8282
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
10th Amendment:
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people"

Except that "PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE" and "ENSURE DOMESTIC TRANQUILITY" WAS specifically delegated to the U.S. by the CONSTITUTION - right there in the PREAMBLE.
"smack:

The US Supreme Court has had NUMEROUS chances to strike down such welfare laws - and yet they are still in place.
Why?
Because the US Constitution specifically says it's the Federal domain to "PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE" and "ENSURE DOMESTIC TRANQUILITY".
Too bad you don't like that, but until YOU become a Supreme Court Justice, your opinion on the subject is not important.

Ken
So, you are now claiming that the Supreme Court is infallible?

Remember at 1 time they ruled that blacks were only 1/3 of a man.

Should we STILL use that ruling?
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Old 02-13-2015, 12:16 PM
 
29,044 posts, read 15,304,746 times
Reputation: 19803
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandmister View Post
YOu do realize that the constitution is not a bible, right? The constitution was more suitable back when the country was formed, but today, not as much.
Sure, the idea of personal freedom and limits on governments power is sooooo old school.

If YOU need a nanny, go for it, but don't drag me down with you.
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Old 02-13-2015, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
15,202 posts, read 18,212,540 times
Reputation: 8031
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandmister View Post
The constitution was more suitable back when the country was formed, but today, not as much.
This is what's wrong with this country today. Many of the problems and issues we face can be boiled down to the attitude demonstrated above.

Sandmister, if you don't believe that the Constitution is applicable today, you're welcome to start taking the appropriate steps to have it changed. Until that happens, you have two options - accept the reality that it is our governing document, or leave and find a country you believe to be more suitable for you.
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Old 02-13-2015, 02:17 PM
 
3,566 posts, read 2,355,014 times
Reputation: 2729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
Your OWN red highlighting, "PROMOTE the general welfare.

Promoting is NOT PROVIDING.
Ah ha ha ha yes exactly. The Constitution explicitly gave the Federal government the power to verbally encourage people to have greater welfare or something, without doing anything about it. That makes perfect sense.

No, "promote" doesn't just mean advertising, like a commercial promo.
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Old 02-13-2015, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,794 posts, read 14,221,610 times
Reputation: 7950
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
So can we also remove the cost of the wars and redo my math?

Study: Iraq, Afghan war costs to top $4 trillion - The Washington Post

4-6 trillion for the overseas wars.
The total cost of the Iraq war was $806 billion, according to the Congressional Research Service.

Iraq War Cost $800 Billion, And What Do We Have To Show For It?


Medicare fraud costs more, since it goes on year after year, while the Iraq war lasted 8 years.

Medicare Fraud Costs Taxpayers More Than $60 Billion Each Year - ABC News
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Old 02-13-2015, 07:04 PM
 
26,302 posts, read 12,780,504 times
Reputation: 12539
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
The total cost of the Iraq war was $806 billion, according to the Congressional Research Service.

Iraq War Cost $800 Billion, And What Do We Have To Show For It?


Medicare fraud costs more, since it goes on year after year, while the Iraq war lasted 8 years.

Medicare Fraud Costs Taxpayers More Than $60 Billion Each Year - ABC News
Why dont you go to your first link, and say...ACTUALLY READ IT.

War operations were 806 billion, now...I know this is hard...but keep reading.

1.7-6 trillion. From your own link.

And then you distract with medicare fraud? Hey tell you what! Lets go after that medicare fraud, im all for it!
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Old 02-13-2015, 07:10 PM
 
8,632 posts, read 9,152,645 times
Reputation: 2403
At the end of the day can we all agree that we need less spending across the board and not more taxes.
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Old 02-13-2015, 07:25 PM
 
2,485 posts, read 1,838,988 times
Reputation: 2140
Quote:
Originally Posted by silas777 View Post
Entitlements are expensive ...please save that nonsense for the other threads.
Entitlements are not only expensive, but damaging to the young generation. Many are now paying for these entitlements. Some don't know that they are paying it in so many ways. For instance,e college tuition is raised so that tax payers have to fund pensions promised way back in good times. So the young are paying for these entitlements as they pay for college. It's as if there isn't enough financial hurdles for them.

They are also told to do what they love, which often translates into poverty. Who told them that?
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Old 02-13-2015, 07:31 PM
 
2,485 posts, read 1,838,988 times
Reputation: 2140
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
Ah ha ha ha yes exactly. The Constitution explicitly gave the Federal government the power to verbally encourage people to have greater welfare or something, without doing anything about it. That makes perfect sense.

No, "promote" doesn't just mean advertising, like a commercial promo.
welfare is an ambiguous word. In many contexts, it simply means well being. It has nothing to do with social programs and services.
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