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There has been immense EU migration from Slavic countries so they want to be able to tell the difference. What Americans both Black and White don't get is that in most of the world ethnicity and to a degree nationality is far more important than race. The Brits are masters of observing traits of various ethnic groups and using their differences for their advantages. Comes in handy when you have to administer a global empire. Conversely Americans, and this was spectacularly manifested during the Iraq/Afghan wars, tend to lump people together without bothering to take note of differences, rivalries etc.
So the Brits would think it silly to lump Pakistani and Indian Hindis into the same category unless you are trying to get at some surface information. In America we lump all Blacks, Asians and more absurdly Hispanics into large groups that don't tell us much of anything since within these groups there are major differences.
Pretty much. Especially here in the western US; most of us white people of any ethnic group call ourselves "anglo" to NOT be looked at as "foreign". It is what it is.
When they say "African," are they talking about immigrants? If so, then this is the same as America- it represents an extreme form of brain drain and is not newsworthy.
If they are talking about native born Brits of African heritage, then it is a stunning achievement.
Clarification please. Maybe a link.
It ain't THAT big of an accomplishment either way.
It's clearly not only about race.West Indian blacks score less than Africans. You can see it's all about culture.What strikes me is that white British students are losing ground.
It's all about selective immigration. Africans can't normally emmigrate to the UK without special qualifications. The ones who do get in are much more accomplished than the typical African and likely have much higher IQs. So it isn't surprising that their kids do well in school.
Last edited by The Dark Enlightenment; 06-06-2015 at 01:52 AM..
I think immigrants should be picked by a random generator from a pool of registered candidates, which everyone can become, provided they don't have a criminal record or contagious disease, and in the case of adults have a basic education (i.e. most of all know how to read and write and do everyday maths). A bit like with the green card lottery in the US.
Actually, this could be done on a global level, one huge database of people wanting to emigrate. The candidate can specify three desired target countries on a priority list. And each country specifies the number of immigrants it wants to allow in. The lucky immigrants would be determined monthly in a kind of lottery.
The global nature would make it easier to manage everything in a standardized manner...
Shows that actually arriving to the west with your culture intact makes a huge difference.There much more at play as well. British Africans have experienced the freedoms of education and employment opportunity much longer than african Americans\blacks here in the states. The civil rights movement was just 50-60 years ago, we lost many intellectuals during that time. Also in the UK slavery was more of indentured servitude and many were still given the opportunity to educate themselves. Not so much the case here in the states, where educational opportunities were denied clean up to the civil rights movement. I dont see any of this as an excuse but black american culture is not african world culture. This "culture" here in the states is what happens when you throw a bunch of same colored people together and deny them essential tools, despite not being from same tribes and ethnic groups within Africa. British Africans have maintained their heritage due to how the Brits governed, better school systems and efforts to reconcile past transgressions through providing the same opportunities to educate themselves.
Crack kills my friend.
But seriously, lets understand that there is no culture in Africa that can really be considered a "successful culture". So no, keeping a culture intact isn't the cause.
The actual truth is that the Black Africans in the UK are mostly the "Cream of the crop"(as many have said in this thread, they are the "brains of Africa" being drained to first-world countries). They aren't the norm, they are the exception.
And if you assume that the Chinese immigrants are also a result of brain-drain; Then the fact that the Chinese are significantly ahead of them isn't exactly an accomplishment.
With that said, the reason blacks are underachievers in America is almost entirely a cultural problem. Blacks really haven't been denied educational opportunities, or most other opportunities(not for about 150 years). The actual problem is that, blacks by-and-large haven't adopted the capitalist values necessary for success.
The average black parent doesn't instill the same desire to succeed in his children that say, the Asian parent does. If a black man is unemployed or in jail, he can go home to his family, and not really feel the utter embarrassment and shame that an Asian man would face under the same circumstances(I say the black man is actually luckier than the Asian man in this respect).
Basically, a black man can be a failure from the perspective of a white man, but he may not be seen as a failure by his peers.
I will say this though, I'm a failure in every sense of the word. I am a far greater failure than most blacks. And I find that comparing blacks and whites by "achievement" or "income" to be completely useless, shallow, and counterproductive(it is a tool of the state, and has no bearing on the happiness of the people). And there are plenty of white people like myself. They are often referred to as "white trash", or "trailer trash". It isn't that "white trash" are incapable of success. The problem is that, they largely just don't care.
The question then is, should they care? And how do you make them care?
In all honesty, the best way to drive someone out of poverty, is to give them a job. Even if the pay isn't very good, it is far better to be working, gaining experience, and gaining skills, than to be idle. Nothing is more destructive to a man's character, than to be idle and dependent on others.
Nothing would be better for the character of black men, than to either be working, or to be independent. And not just black men, all men. Being independent produces the greatest virtue of all.
What we want is a virtuous nation. A wealthy nation that lacks virtue is a poor nation in everything that matters.
It doesn't have anything to do with capitalism. Values are values, regardless of the system. Being lazy or criminal is not a good value anywhere. If by values you mean social-Darwinist ideas, then I don't share those values, either.
East Asians might be more successful, but that comes at a price. The excessive pressure and expectations have lead to a severe suicide problem in East Asia.
It doesn't have anything to do with capitalism. Values are values, regardless of the system. Being lazy or criminal is not a good value anywhere. If by values you mean social-Darwinist ideas, then I don't share those values, either.
East Asians might be more successful, but that comes at a price. The excessive pressure and expectations have lead to a severe suicide problem in East Asia.
Your last line is exactly correct. But what people don't understand, is that the pressure on white Americans is also greater than it is on black Americans.
The suicide rate for white men is nearly three times the rate of black men. In fact, blacks have the lowest suicide rate of all ethnic groups.
Trust me, I've seen this issue from many different perspectives. I've lived in poverty, and I've lived in the "upper middle-class". I've lived in the ghetto, and among the biggest "white-trash" on the planet.
The problem is that, these people come from a culture and background which neither holds up hard work as a virtue, nor are there examples within the community that can really show them them a path to success. Thus, the vast majority of these people just continue doing what they are doing. And to whatever extent they are criticized, they just blame it on someone else.
The biggest advantage anyone can have in regards to success, is successful parents. A successful parent is far more likely to "push" his children towards success(and to not accept anything less than success). A successful parent also serves as an example to his children on how to become successful(these two are what I meant by "capitalist values"). And a successful parent can often hand his child a job within the company he works for, or through some other "connection".
My uncle came from a background where, men just worked, they did something, they earned money. Anyone who didn't work, was basically a bad person. And the money you made as a man, in his mind, basically said what your value was as a person. He had the capitalist values, and it drove him to success. At least, in the financial sense of the word. He always made good money, and ran a few different businesses in his lifetime. But he was a shallow and unvirtuous man in every sense of the word beyond his work ethic. He would have been the perfect CEO for some large corporation. Ruthless, money-obsessed, and narcissistic.
I would rather be a failure a hundred times over, than be a man like him. And I lived with him for many years of my life. He is the perfect citizen according to our government. But to me, he is everything wrong with the world. A selfish glutton, who derived his self-worth from money, and what he believed was the power and prestige which derived from it.
Count your blessings.
I've only in recent years been able to partially negate the great "weight" that has been pushed upon me to succeed by my middle-class and upper middle-class environments. And there are people who I care about, who I don't even visit anymore, because all they do is make me feel guilty about not doing more than I'm doing.
I want to add. I refuse to accept that being poor makes anyone a criminal.
Criminality comes from being dependent, covetous, and materialistic. In fact, pretty much all evil in the world comes from these three things. And all of these things negatively reinforce each other.
I would take a Black African off the boat over most native blacks. Because at least they haven't yet been indoctrinated by liberals to covet their neighbor, obsess about money and possessions, and become completely dependent on the state.
As Jefferson said...
"Those who labor in the earth are the chosen people of God, if ever he had a chosen people, whose breasts he has made his peculiar deposit for substantial and genuine virtue. It is the focus in which he keeps alive that sacred fire, which otherwise might escape from the face of the earth. Corruption of morals in the mass of cultivators is a phenomenon of which no age nor nation has furnished an example. It is the mark set on those, who not looking up to heaven, to their own soil and industry, as does the husbandman, for their subsistence, depend for it on the casualties and caprice of customers. Dependence begets subservience and venality, suffocates the germ of virtue, and prepares fit tools for the designs of ambition."
If blacks were truly independent, you would see virtue rise in them quickly. Just as it had in the past. Prior to the rise of the liberals.
Well, I don't believe in success, frankly, nor in failure, nor in hard work. That is a rather American way of thinking. I just live, I only work as much as necessary to pay my bills, and I have zero ambition in terms of work or wealth. But it is enough for me, it is my life, so I don't live by overachievers' standards. I never judge people by their job titles or income, those are irrelevant things to me.
Nor do I believe in gods, hence Jefferson talk doesn't exactly impress me. The chosen people of god?! Yeah sure
Last edited by Neuling; 06-06-2015 at 07:26 AM..
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