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There are many reasons for our debt increasing including the congress and more particularly the prior administration but if increased debt is your guide then Reagan must be one of the most unpatriotic presidents of all time (and Bush2)
The focus point is Giuliani's comments relative to Obama, you can start a new thread on Clinton, Gore or Bush if you want.
The question was Obama's patriotism maybe you have some specific comments that drove Giuliani to make that irrational statement.
Are you afraid to confront the fact that this is contrived outrage? These comments are pertinent to pointing out Obama groupie hypocrisy, which this thread is. It is 100% relevant.
1) Obama (D) questioning Bush's (R) love for his country = not a problem.
2) Al Gore (D) questioning Bush's (R) love for his country = not a problem.
3) Bill Clinton (D) questioning Obama's (D) love for his country = needs to be swept under the rug.
4) Giuliani (R) questioning Obama's (D) love for his country = Giuliani's name is tarnished forever!
5) Attending a church for ~2 Decades where the pastor is clearly unpatriotic and "God D@^&s America" right after 9-11 isn't a possible sign of not loving America as is.
6) Having friends that hated America to the point where some even became domestic terrorists isn't a possible sign of not loving America as is.
I don't know what is in Obama's heart. I do know that the typical Obama supporter is disingenuous on this topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight
There are many reasons for our debt increasing including the congress and more particularly the prior administration but if increased debt is your guide then Reagan must be one of the most unpatriotic presidents of all time (and Bush2)
So are you implying that Obama was a fool to call Bush unpatriotic OR that it was just another one of Obama's many lies to sell the BS Hope and Change?
P.S. I am not a big Reagan fan, I am not like typical Obama supporters - head over heels in love with politicians.
I will address your point, and then you see if you can respond without once attacking or insulting people other than Obama or someone else holding political office.
Here is what Obama said (who was at the time a presidential candidate): "The problem is that the way Bush has done it over the last eight years is to take out a credit card from China in the name of our children, driving up our national debt ... we now have over $9 trillion of debt that we are going to have to pay back. $30,000 for every man, woman and child. That's irresponsible, it's unpatriotic."
Here is what one-time mayor Giuliani, who is currently not running for office nor holding office said: "I do not believe, and I know this is a horrible thing to say, but I do not believe that the president loves America," Giuliani is quoted as saying. "He doesn't love you. And he doesn't love me. He wasn't brought up the way you were brought up and I was brought up."
He then went on to imply that the president was a communist and not a christian.
Only Fox News and Daily Caller could equate that to Obama's statement on Bush policy. Obama did not personally attack Bush's feelings about the country or make statements regarding his upbringing. Obama was criticizing policy, not personal feelings or motives. And this has been reinforced by Jeb Bush, Rand Paul and Marco Rubio--they feel it is fair game to criticize policy--not personal feelings. They are also distancing themselves from Giuliani who is quickly becoming a third rail for the candidates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon
Great point.
As I said earlier on this thread, Obama supporters are not mad that someone questioned whether or not a sitting president loves this country. They are upset that someone questioned a president that they have an emotional attachment too.
There was no outrage for the examples of it happening to Bush. They are hypocrites.
By factual definition of unpatriotic, Obama said that Bush's actions don't show love for his country. I can read as much into what Obama was saying about Bush's motives as you can read into Giuliani's statement for motives. Obama rails on Bush for policies favoring the rich, favoring outsourcers, favoring Halliburton*** -- bad motives -- and then says that these things leads to debt and that doesn't show love for his country. Obama DID question Bush's motives as much as Giuliani did to Obama.
You didn't care then as you already had an emotional attachment to Obama and he has a D after his name.
You didn't care when Gore did it to Bush either for the same partisan reasons.
***The irony is that Obama has out-Bushed Bush on those things and you and the rest that chanted and fainted don't care. For the same reasons you are hypocritical on Obama's Bush comments.
I addressed your point as you requested (without insulting you or anyone else). I challenged you to respond with an objective rational response without tossing out any ad hominem attacks or insulting people.
You just could not do it, could you? This is why the Obama haters have zero credibility. They cannot put forth a logical rational argument without insulting anyone who disagrees with them. It is simply not possible to debate people who are so emotionally invested in their political opinions. They take everything personally and resort to insults and name-calling.
There is no big deal here, so stop friggin making it something worse right friend. Big deal I had a real good Democrat friend just say to me right here and now. I feel the same way about Obama and agree with what was said about him, I agree with him. And how come when Obama stated that Bush was Unpatriotic, no nothing, no one cared at all.
He is entitled to his opinion, whether any of you like it or not, and he does not have to agree with any other opinion, other then his own.
Then he brought up Rev Right, a real nice guy, and I can get into other things but why. He is not the only one to feel this way, believe that. How many people believe what he said, but won't admit it to others.
I know so many people who believe he wanted to transform America, and not with Good Hope nor great Change.
You can love him all you want, to his supporters, but those of us who don't leave us the hell alone.
Are you afraid to confront the fact that this is contrived outrage? These comments are pertinent to pointing out Obama groupie hypocrisy, which this thread is. It is 100% relevant.
1) Obama (D) questioning Bush's (R) love for his country = not a problem.
2) Al Gore (D) questioning Bush's (R) love for his country = not a problem.
3) Bill Clinton (D) questioning Obama's (D) love for his country = needs to be swept under the rug.
4) Giuliani (R) questioning Obama's (D) love for his country = Giuliani's name is tarnished forever!
5) Attending a church for ~2 Decades where the pastor is clearly unpatriotic and "God D@^&s America" right after 9-11 isn't a possible sign of not loving America as is.
6) Having friends that hated America to the point where some even became domestic terrorists isn't a possible sign of not loving America as is.
I don't know what is in Obama's heart. I do know that the typical Obama supporter is disingenuous on this topic.
So are you implying that Obama was a fool to call Bush unpatriotic OR that it was just another one of Obama's many lies to sell the BS Hope and Change?
P.S. I am not a big Reagan fan, I am not like typical Obama supporters - head over heels in love with politicians.
It's not contrived outrage, this is a staged event by Giuliani and the extreme members of the GOP. Giuliani wasn't even supposed to be a speaker but the ex-NYC mayoral candidate John Catsimatidis invited him on a whim and also put him on his radio show this week. He repeatedly and directly claimed that Obama was unpatriotic based on opinion over the course of several days, no facts.
Axelrod is right, Rudy is a fading politician trying to get some attention. One reason he is not relevant is because the Republicans rejected him for President even with his self promoted 9/11 story. By the way, how come Rudy is hung up with Obama does not "love me?" H*ll, they are a lot of people on C-D that don't like Obama. Do they hate America too?
Who cares? We should not be electing someone who just blindly "loves" his country...we need people who are objective about the country's faults and are willing to put it on the table. Patriotism is for the simple-minded...nothing that is good stays good for very long and everything is in flux. So, to cling to old-world ideas like patriotism is rather silly.
Nothing is permanent, including nations...this will all someday be a long-forgotten footnote in the annals of history
Riiiiight.
Last edited by CaseyB; 02-24-2015 at 07:37 AM..
Reason: name calling
Lucario"Rudy is a Stalinesque, megalomaniacal creep."
That is disrespectful..to Stalin.
I apologize to Stalin.
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