why are people so against the "rich" (crime, Jesus, carry)
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Many of our conservative friends here--and those who read the Bible--know that even Jesus said, basically, that a rich person getting into heaven would be like a camel fitting through the eye of a needle.
That's not to say that all rich people are doomed to hell, because there are some wealthy folks who actively use their wealth for the good of mankind, and who didn't acquire or otherwise benefit from such riches without being immoral, dishonest or deceptive.
I don't mean to be rude but your posts are all over the map... your thoughts seem to jump around and it's difficult to follow. It could be due to the language barrier... I'm sure if I tried to hop on a German message board I would do much worse.
Okay, my point was that crime, especially drug trafficking, could be considered the epitome of the demand and supply 'free' economy philosophy. Often pushers offer the 1st taste for free, so you get hooked on their stuff. I don't consider samples from other non-criminal enterprises any different since they all work on the same principle; creating a demand (especially when there is none).
This might be another post subject, but YES, these foreign "manufacturers" are largely (or at least started out as....) subcontractors to US firms who "farmed out" the manufacturing to China, etc. Mexico got too expensive, that was the first country to make US items to a large extent. When the workers wanted a bigger piece of the $$, the same companies pulled out and went across the Pacific. I don't see any REDUCTION in many of the prices with this lower manufacturing cost, and at the quantities, s hipping becomes negligible. The execs are raking in the difference.
It's a nice theory, by the way, to say "boycott non-US made products." The fact is, you can't. You wouldn't be able to buy anything.
I have several "made in USA" tags on clothes that I am saving....I feel like they are so RARE. They also wear like iron, unlike the "Made in Sri Lanka, China, et al" stuff that is the "new" wear for one season and trash paradigm. I just hate that. The big box stores and "cheap" items have made us a culture of consumers of....junk.
MAYBE AN OFF POINT BUT: Consider that we have subbed out most defense parts to China. I don't think we could build any planes, cars, any military equipment whatsoever if relations with China soured......or they quit lending us money for our deficit......we have junk we bought from them, they have the cash, they loan it back to us, we pay interest.......this is globalization? I call it frightening. We have given away what made this country an economic power......our manufacturing base.....for the profit of very few.
And I beg to differ.....VERY FEW in China have benefitted. Check out the "housing" for factory workers.....and this is a totalitarian state whom I, for one, DO NOT TRUST to maintain productive relations with us in the long term.
Greedy businessmen (accountants? Sorry but....) have made our economic and political policy.
Originally Posted by twojciacOkay, my point was that crime, especially drug trafficking, could be considered the epitome of the demand and supply 'free' economy philosophy. Often pushers offer the 1st taste for free, so you get hooked on their stuff. I don't consider samples from other non-criminal enterprises any different since they all work on the same principle; creating a demand (especially when there is none).
I don't see the connection. There's a buyer and a seller, both of which agree to the terms... what is wrong there? Not everyone who uses drugs is an addict, and not all addicts are hard drug users.
The government doesn't regulate how much alcohol one can drink, nor how much tobacco one can smoke... and either of those kill way more people than any hard drug.
Doesn't explain why Walmart would look to move into LA and other large cities where you read about cities blocking their development. There's no denying that they've dominated rural areas, but as you admit, it's pricing that the other businesses can't compete with. Their markup is irrelevant, as they are selling product for less money due to many factors (efficiency, bulk, and buying from overseas). Your statement was that companies aren't passing this savings along to their customers, but Walmart is proof positive that lower prices are being realized... even if it is to the detriment of smaller businesses.
REPLY: How can markup be irrelevant? They are passing on "some" savings to the consumer, yes. But proportionately, they are raking it in. The original attraction of the big box in rural areas was NOT ONLY price, these stores were designed to be the 'new" entertainment (and I am NOT downing rural living, this was Wal Mart's strategy...) in rural areas, they used the "kid at a candy store" approach, luring people in to buy items they didn't need (small businesss couldn't do that).
Now, the "American way" is of course free competition. But, this is the downside of the big box, no question. They are but ONE (yes the biggest or one of....) corporation which has, AT THE END OF THE DAY, shafted the US in favor of cheaper labor. I get it, now it's survival for everyone else.....is your firm going to go out of business as you doggedly continue paying your employees $15 per hour plus even PARTIAL bennies?
HOWEVER, I take issue with the marketed delusions that people in the US (quit believing spin control and advertising, people...) have regarding the structure of this (yet another) "business plan"...NO, you are not getting these gigantic savings passed on to you, dear people......not by a longshot, considering the ratio.
Problem with this? Check out the credit situation......credit cards maxed out, etc......
Wal Mart DOES NOT move to high rent urban areas. They find empty buildings or neo slum areas (not total slum, borderline, or "urban pioneer" areas, blah blah blah) and buy up cheap buildings, teardowns, or empty factories/warehouses, attempt to/succed in getting huge tax breaks, their property tax base is therefore very low compared to gentrified or more affluent city neighborhoods, and THEY THEN PROCEED to, again, price any neighborhood urban businesses out of the market. They always build, in my experience, on public transportation lines to attract the poorer, non driving people, working or not (in many urban areas.....not)...in much the same manner and with much the same purpose as the rural ones....they then proceed to employ down and outers for wages so much lower than the usual retail.......I suppose we could say "that's great, no one ELSE was,"....and perhaps we should. I hope the employ the business owners they put out of business.....
I can say with experience....items there and at Target are NOT cheaper than the one big grocery store chain here. NOT. They are only cheaper than the one "boutique" grocery chain here, but that's more like a neo Euro gourmet store (different market). IF YOU SHOP SALES, the big box stores are the same and in many cases, higher than the standard grocery stores....HERE.
[QUOTE: Yes, their wages are considerably higher than non-executives.But you haven't shown how this is due to moving manufacturing overseas.]
REPLY: The point I was making was not that there's a difference in wages (as always), it was that moving the mfg overseas built a much larger profit margin by reducing manufacturing costs.....that this increase in profit is neither passed on to the consumer NOR is it passed on to the employees; it is hoovered by the execs. All about the ratio. That pc of the pie got larger......and the top dogs took it.
[QUOTE: The Chinese have their own companies. Look at Huawei... they have stolen Cisco's products, even down to the software (IOS) that runs on their routers... to the extent that they had the same bugs as IOS. Their products sell for pennies on the dollar compared to Cisco. The only way Cisco can compete is on quality and support. They're relying on customers such as banks, telecoms, and Fortune 500 companies that lose millions of dollars a minute when a network is down.... where cost of the equipment isn't really a factor. However, they sell like hotcakes in Asia and Brazil where downtime is almost expected.
There's a ironworks factory in India that manufactures manhole covers for New York City. The guys are running around barefoot, with molten iron inches away from their feet.
I believe we will be priced out of markets soon... China and India are on the brink of becoming huge players... they're starting to mature.
REPLY: Yes the evolution from subcontractors to direct Chinese providers is well under way. I had previously read the NYT article; I am aware of the abuses. This has been going on since Donna Karan got busted for having 10 year olds going blind sewing $800 blazers overseas.
I have felt for some time that the Chinese "quality" problem is going to explode. Not so much lead paint in Thomas the Tank Engine (huge problem, thank G my children are past that point.....), but the possibility, as you point out, of military/computer/logistical shutdowns of huge magnitude. By the way, just where were those "defective" space shuttle seals mf'd.....watch it be California. Even so, the quality control is not nearly to the level of (thank you union guys) the "old" manufacturing here.
It's a bomb waiting to explode, in my opinion.....on a very huge level.
Wal Mart's marketing strategy is based on going into areas with small businesses and pricing the locals out of the market....and out of business. Small businesses don't buy in the same quantity -- Wal Mart buys for less but the markup is stlil obscene.
Burgess - I would say that your post is true because I've seen Wal-mart personnel do this... when I was in college I worked at Wal-mart for about 6 months... and the manager would go out in the field to the mom and pop stores to see what their prices were. She would then adjust the prices below the competition by a nickle or more. This was in the photo department... This was 10 years ago though... I imagine Wal-mart still does this.
Burgess - I would say that your post is true because I've seen Wal-mart personnel do this... when I was in college I worked at Wal-mart for about 6 months... and the manager would go out in the field to the mom and pop stores to see what their prices were. She would then adjust the prices below the competition by a nickle or more. This was in the photo department... This was 10 years ago though... I imagine Wal-mart still does this.
This is the same thing that a gas station does when they look at their neighbor's sign and reduce their price by a penny. It's lowering cost in hopes of attracting a higher volume.
This is the same thing that a gas station does when they look at their neighbor's sign and reduce their price by a penny. It's lowering cost in hopes of attracting a higher volume.
But is there anything wrong with that?
Well I believe that is called "predatory pricing" when a business tries to drive another competitor out of business. Competition is one thing - you stated an example of it - but purposely trying to undercut the competition to drive them out of business is illegal, in some states anyway. It's hard to prove and I do think there is something wrong with it. As an individual, I would not try to take a person's livelihood away to benefit myself - I think it's unethical and sets forth bad karma. That's one reason (out of many) why corporations and the rich are stereotyped as being heartless and bad for America. It is entirely possible to do well and be successful without purposely snuffing out the competition.
Personally, I avoid Wal-mart like the plague. I don't want to be one of millions of people who support companies who become rich by selling out my country to the lowest bidder.
btw, in my previous post I mentioned that the Wal-mart manager would cut the price by a nickle or more... I meant a nickle or more per picture. So, if the competition had 20 cents per picture, Wal-mart would make their prices 15 cents per picture - which is a big price cut if you think about it - I don't see how that's not trying to drive a mom and pop photo lab out of business...
Last edited by mommabear2; 01-17-2008 at 10:45 AM..
I'm not sure what you question means. Are you asking why more people are not more sympathetic to those in need? Or are you asking why so few wish to emulate the poor?
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Often pushers offer the 1st taste for free, so you get hooked on their stuff. I don't consider samples from other non-criminal enterprises any different since they all work on the same principle; creating a demand (especially when there is none).
