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I heard some Chinese kid saying that his parents will pay for his wedding and then after he gets married, he and his wife are moving back in with his parents. These people bring Third World values, America has always been about the individual, working hard and being independent.
In Chinese culture, it is perfectly acceptable for some grown up man to live off their parents, it is a parasitic, collectivist culture.
Well you can rest easy that one day his parents will pass away and he'll be on his own like the rest of us.
Adding, just because they move in with his parents does not mean they are living off of them. Many people of various cultures live in multi-generational households. For many it's a matter of taking care of the parents, rather than the other way around.
English is the worldwide lingua franca for business and international dealings. The educated elite of pretty much every country on Earth worth a damn, including China, speak English. If anything, Americans are behind the curve in other languages precisely because of this--due to its prominence and our geography, we've generally never really HAD to learn another language. With immigrants, this changes. Most fresh off the boat immigrants, if they haven't had that English exposure, do not speak the language fluently. Therefore, they stick with what they know in their communities. For whatever reason, probably due to lack of exposure, this irritates people like the OP who are suddenly in a position where they feel threatened. This is what I'm getting at when I call this sentiment xenophobic. It's irrational and based on emotion. Name one immigrant group that hasn't 'assimilated' language wise, given enough time here in America?
At one point in Chemistry, if you want to learn and contribute to the science, you have to know German. At an earlier point in history, if you want to learn and contribute to Philosophy, you have to know Greek. And so on...Am sure you got the idea.
In a similar vein, if you want to live in a country not originally of your own, it is YOU who must conform and learn the prevalent language, not the native citizenry who must conform to your wishes. If in the end, you are fluent in two languages, whooop-dee-dooo good for you. But that does not mean somehow you are intellectually superior to the natives of which each know only one. Americans, like any other citizenry of any country, do not 'have to' learn any additional language in order to make functional their own country.
I find the criticism that Americans are 'ignorant' of things outside US borders to be hilarious. US businesses and businessmen are all over the world. So are religious missionaries such as the Mormons who sends young men and women on two-yrs missions overseas. Last but not least there is the US military, of which I am a veteran who have been overseas in yrs long tours, who are often called to be intimately involved in other countries' affairs in ways no other military do. Many learn new languages and many do not. But each of us return home with our bits of knowledge and perceptions of these foreign cultures.
Collectively, Americans who had intimate relationships with foreign countries, that are beyond the scope of tourism, outnumber the citizen count of many countries. I find it doubly hilarious that some Internet fools from countries that have illiteracy rates in the double digits for both men and women calls Americans 'stupid' and 'ignorant'. And I find it sad that so many Americans swallowed those criticisms and insults.
Quote:
Originally Posted by qworldorder
English isn't under threat here in America. Those immigrants, if they want to survive and prosper, will learn English, typically better with each generation. As I've said, English is the global language. It would be foolish not to. What isn't OK is telling people they can't speak their native tongue here in the States. Why not? That just screams uninclusive and xenophobic.
The call to make English the official national language is a symptom of a deeper issue, actually deeper than the thinly veiled racism that some -- not all -- have within.
The issue is about unity, not language. A common language is the vehicle of which ideas are transported from person to person and from generation to generation, from food recipes to notions that are unique to the culture. Anyone who speaks more than one language, and I am one of them, know that ideas can be lost in translation.
If I remember correctly: 'If culture is the heart of a people, then language is the soul.'
The demand for immigrants to speak 'only' English maybe unreasonable and even absurd, but it masks a very real fear of losing national identity and the people's soul. No matter what, Americans are a distinct people with a culture that is as unique as any in history. The US is a great country but even if we are to discard the hyperbole 'great', it is still a country that have a soul and heritage that was preserved by a common language.
Immigrants abandoned what they believed to be inadequate and settled in the US in the hope of partaking the bounties of what they perceived to be superior. Asking immigrants to contribute to the preservation of the common vehicle -- English -- that helped made this country superior to what they abandoned is not unreasonable.
Location: Watching half my country turn into Gilead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderic
At one point in Chemistry, if you want to learn and contribute to the science, you have to know German. At an earlier point in history, if you want to learn and contribute to Philosophy, you have to know Greek. And so on...Am sure you got the idea.
In a similar vein, if you want to live in a country not originally of your own, it is YOU who must conform and learn the prevalent language, not the native citizenry who must conform to your wishes. If in the end, you are fluent in two languages, whooop-dee-dooo good for you. But that does not mean somehow you are intellectually superior to the natives of which each know only one. Americans, like any other citizenry of any country, do not 'have to' learn any additional language in order to make functional their own country.
I find the criticism that Americans are 'ignorant' of things outside US borders to be hilarious. US businesses and businessmen are all over the world. So are religious missionaries such as the Mormons who sends young men and women on two-yrs missions overseas. Last but not least there is the US military, of which I am a veteran who have been overseas in yrs long tours, who are often called to be intimately involved in other countries' affairs in ways no other military do. Many learn new languages and many do not. But each of us return home with our bits of knowledge and perceptions of these foreign cultures.
Collectively, Americans who had intimate relationships with foreign countries, that are beyond the scope of tourism, outnumber the citizen count of many countries. I find it doubly hilarious that some Internet fools from countries that have illiteracy rates in the double digits for both men and women calls Americans 'stupid' and 'ignorant'. And I find it sad that so many Americans swallowed those criticisms and insults.
The call to make English the official national language is a symptom of a deeper issue, actually deeper than the thinly veiled racism that some -- not all -- have within.
The issue is about unity, not language. A common language is the vehicle of which ideas are transported from person to person and from generation to generation, from food recipes to notions that are unique to the culture. Anyone who speaks more than one language, and I am one of them, know that ideas can be lost in translation.
If I remember correctly: 'If culture is the heart of a people, then language is the soul.'
The demand for immigrants to speak 'only' English maybe unreasonable and even absurd, but it masks a very real fear of losing national identity and the people's soul. No matter what, Americans are a distinct people with a culture that is as unique as any in history. The US is a great country but even if we are to discard the hyperbole 'great', it is still a country that have a soul and heritage that was preserved by a common language.
Immigrants abandoned what they believed to be inadequate and settled in the US in the hope of partaking the bounties of what they perceived to be superior. Asking immigrants to contribute to the preservation of the common vehicle -- English -- that helped made this country superior to what they abandoned is not unreasonable.
I am a veteran, as well, and have extensively traveled the globe. English, as it stands, is the current lingua franca of the world, and is under threat from no other language. Even with China's 'ascendency', English will remain quite entrenched for the long term. There simply isn't any other language that unites such disparate people around the world. From Iowa to Iraq to India, people speak English.
No, not knowing another language does not make you ignorant. It is not a prerequisite for success. That said, knowing another language or languages does make you more enlightened, in a sense, then someone who doesn't. Not enlightened in the sense of intellectual or moral superiority, but enlightened in the ability to communicate and bond with others. It is disingenuous to believe that there is no advantage to knowing another language in addition to your own. It gives you a leg up, which is why so many US businessmen (Mark Zuckerburg for example) try to learn a foreign language--to better express their ideas and to better endear themselves to their target audience. Simply put, it IS better to know more than one language, especially in this globalized age. With technology, air travel, etc, borders aren't what they used to be. Americans shouldn't wallow in the comfort of English simply because it's the default language. As you said, things can get lost in translation.
With all that said, there have been sentiments expressed in this thread that NO other language should be allowed to be spoken in public, to be displayed on signs. The OP specifically expressed his discomfort with it. I'm glad that you recognize this absurdity for what it is.
Going further, however, you touch on unity and national identity. Yet, no one in this thread has come forth to express exactly what this national identity is, outside of language. If English is the de facto language of this country, and the second language of most of the world, it is in no way under attack. The 'unity' of this country, at least when it comes to language, is safe. A few Chinese immigrants or signs in their communities won't change that. Furthermore, as has been expressed in this thread, immigrants have historically ALWAYS learned English in this country, at least enough to get by. Their next generation improves, and then the next, until you actually have to go on a mission to find linguistic enclaves in this country, for say, French or Italian. Everything being expressed in this thread about non-assimilation and English under attack is just non-sense. And since no one has given me a straight answer as to what our national identity is, I'll give one:
We are a nation of immigrants, of diverse peoples, united in the belief of freedom, of liberty, of justice. We are here to pursue our dreams, to live well, and to live peaceably. We are united by a common language, but we are not beholden to it, in the same vein that we are not beholden to a national religion or a national party. THAT is what makes us great, and unique, and imitated around the world. English isn't going anywhere. But how awesome would it be if the OP actually took the time to voice his concerns to those immigrants in THEIR native language. I bet his criticisms would carry greater weight with them then just posting on a message board.
One last thing, English adopts foreign words better than any other language on the globe. Half of our vocabulary comes from Old French, for goodness sake. The language that they lament as being dismissed is literally comprised of thousands of foreign words. The very nature of English is to interact with other languages. Half of our state names aren't even 'English' words lol. So all this talk of speak English only is just laughable.
Last edited by qworldorder; 02-27-2015 at 05:27 AM..
I always regarded myself as tolerant of people of all backgrounds. But now one group of people has tested not only my patience, but also my tolerance. And that group of people are this new wave of Chinese immigrants and visitors to the United States.
And why does no one even bat an eye on them? $$$
This new wave of mainland Chinese have a mentality that they can buy their way into the United States, and that everything in this country is theirs for the taking, as long as they pay for it by any means necessary. And we in America take their money without regard for the consquences.
They do NOT assimilate as the earlier waves of Chinese, Taiwanese, and Hong Kong immigrants did. More and more Chinese international students are enrolling at the community colleges in my area. Because again, $$$. Those Chinese international students make NO effort to assimilate among their fellow students, clustering in their own groups speaking Mandarin amongst themselves, not English. Just yesterday I went back to a community college I attended to pick up some forms, and there were parts of the campus where I felt like I was at the University of Beijing. Not because those people were Asian, it's because I heard Mandarin out of their mouths, not English.
In cities in my area, it is now just as possible to live a Chinese-only lifestyle as it is to live a Spanish-only or English-only lifestyle. Municipalities here state "Mandarin/Cantonese/etc. preferred" in their job postings. More and more retailers are catering to Chinese with money. Last time I visited the biggest, most well-known local mall in this part of Southern California (Westfield Santa Anita) I felt like I was in Beijing or Shanghai. And in many Asian-majority neighborhoods, good luck finding a sign you can read.
Remember how I mentioned this new wave of Chinese think they can just buy their way into this country?
Rich Chinese are coming here on tourist visas to have babies with U.S. citizenship. Yes, they are having ANCHOR BABIES. They pay for everything all in cash, and it's all legal under the 14th Amendment and U.S. immigration law. The maternity hotels generally keep a low profile here, but people know they are here. In a community near mine, one only has to walk down a sidewalk along a major street and see the groups of pregnant Chinese women waddling around together to the nearby mall or big-box stores to go shopping.
And they come into those big-box stores to buy mass quantities of baby formula. Stores have set limits on formula buying, but they come in again and again to buy more. And of course, they are cheap so they will come in with as many coupons in hand as possible, and if there are free giftcards on offer, you bet half the population of China will be in the store buying up formula to send back to China for profit.
They tear down historic, charming houses to build mansions, offering up mass quantities of cash to longtime residents to get them out and themselves in. And bring their spoiled children with them. Even at the community college I see cars such as Aston Martins in the parking lot driven by China's young and spoiled. Seeing a Ferrari, Bentley, or Lamborghini was once a special occasion when I went to LA's rich, glamourous areas such as Beverly Hills. Now, I see exotic and top-end luxury cars more and more in my local area, and who are the drivers? China's young and spoiled.
Was this rant long? Yes. But no one sees the looming consequences of this new Chinese invasion.
I had to look up "fobs" on urban dictionary. I hope many who are chiming in on this subject realize that there were similar concerns back in the 1800s with Germans, Irish, and Italians. And perhaps their own ancestors were also viewed with suspicion and resentment by folks whom had been here longer. There was even a political party formed around this same sort of thinking, The Know Nothing Party. It generally does take a couple of generations to assimilate, but it happens.
I think "fobs" is used by Americans of Asian family to talk about aliens from China and so on. Most "Asian" Americans, at least those born here, are anglo white in culture.
That consumption and opulence everyone fears is actually adding to the economy. They come here, spend their wealth and attend our universities. Schools don't seem to complain. And ask any Britain or Australian what their perception of Americans may be. I've been directly told "dont all Americans have perfect teeth and buy their children sport cars?". Its PART of american "culture" if you can call it that. We started this game.
Schools don't complain and the businesses around campus don't complain either. The foreign students purchase goods and services near the campus and bring up the local economy.
I have no doubts you or anyone else in this thread struggle to understand EXACTLY what was meant with my comment. Playing semantics will only sideline the true points of this conversation. Lack of will to compete, lack of cultural knowledge as to why so many Chinese immigrate to the states and ignorance to this countries own history and hypocritical sentiments towards those immigrating here. You complain about the Chinese when the ONLY group with any legitimate claims to this land are the indigenous native Americans. The same fear drum has been beat time and time again: "Whats up with all these -insert_race- moving to MY town?". Its the same bullsh$t and there seems to be one group consistently making these remarks as if America has one defined ethnicity. Are you indigenous? No. Are they of any threat to you when chances are they're more affluent and educated? Perhaps but thats your own fault.
Its fairly obvious you have your head in the sand. Americans left these jobs for several reasons. A - We are transitioning from an industrialized to service based economy. B - Most Americans feel they are too good for these jobs, farming would potentially collapse without the immigrant workforce (illegal or not). C - Its expected that wages keep up with inflation, something that has not happened and the results are the same, many Americans leaving for higher wages elsewhere. These arguments attempting to rationalize unmitigated fear of foreigners is just down right ridiculous. Every single citizens excluding the native american population are immigrants. We are simply borrowing this land from them and they've been WAY too generous.
There also seems to be some false notion that race and ethnicity can be preserved. It can't, get over yourselves folks.
Where did I complain about Chinese legal immigrants? We are no longer a nation of immigrants but a nation of American citizens. Just because we continue to allow in immigrants (as most countries do anyway) does not make us a nation of immigrants anymore. Our citizen population way outnumbers our immigrant population. Time to shed that stupid label and be allowed to be ourselves....a nation of Americans with a unique identity of our own just like all other countries have an identity.
There was no such thing as a Native American when this continent/country was discovered. The so-called Native American's ancestors migrated here from somewhere else just as the Europeans did. The only ones native to this country are those who have been born here and that includes the descendants of both of the groups above.
We have an identifying "culture" all others are just minority cultures here. Are we Asian, Hispanic in identity for example? No, we are not and our language is English not Mandarin or Spanish. Sorry, if you don't like that. No one is asking anyone not to practice their native culture or native language at home just blend in and assimilate out in mainstream. So no, I never said that ethnicity can't be preserved. Race is genetics so you including that makes no sense. We can't change our genetics. I don't have a problem with race but I do wish to retain our nation's national language and our identifying culture. Oh the horror, right? Would you also demonize the Japanese or Chinese for wanting to retain their nation's Asian identity or countries south of our border as being Hispanic in identity? Funny, the hypocricy of some and the double standards for the U.S. by them.
And they wont be able to. You'll notice a decrease in thread activity after our points have been made. They wont admit its xenophobia and racism but it is.
How is desiring that our own citizens come first and expecting immigrants to assimilate into our country equate to racism and xenophobia?
How is desiring that our own citizens come first and expecting immigrants to assimilate into our country equate to racism and xenophobia?
Xenophobia = Fear of those from foriegn countries, Racism = Fear of one due to race or ethnicity. Both things Chinese immigrants can't control yet are being targeted for in this thread.
Xenophobia = Fear of those from foriegn countries, Racism = Fear of one due to race or ethnicity. Both things Chinese immigrants can't control yet are being targeted for in this thread.
If you would go back and read some of the posts you would see that this is about non-assimilation and about foreigners getting slots in our colleges where an American student should get them first. This is neither xenophobia nor racism. But of course liberals see a racist hiding behind every rock especially since they don't even try to understand a different point of view and try to spin it to make one appear racist.
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And ask any Britain or Australian what their perception of Americans may be. I've been directly told "dont all Americans have perfect teeth and buy their children sport cars?". Its PART of american "culture" if you can call it that. We started this game.
And they wont be able to. You'll notice a decrease in thread activity after our points have been made. They wont admit its xenophobia and racism but it is.
