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How does one determine a potential customer is gay? is there a sign on the entrance saying every one must disclose their sexual preference before purchase? Which brings up the question of why does it matter if some one is gay or not?In my city there are probably thousands of gays, so what, they dont bother me i dont bother them they live their lives i live mine. whats the big deal?
The fact is, she was not even "asked" for anything by the customer. She was informed by her employee that the customer wanted her to create floral arrangements for his gay wedding. She approached the customer and explained why she could not assist before a formal request from him was actually made to her.
When you engage a florist for a wedding, there is more involved than just picking up flowers. It is more personal and involved. I don't know if you have ever been married, but that is the normal interaction a with wedding florists. And her business (thus she) would be participating in the event because her creative talents were involved in creating an integral part of the event.
Flowers do not have religious beliefs. How insightful of you. Do flowers create arrangements of themselves? Or is a human required to make the selection of flowers to combine into an arrangement? Is an individual required to select the container into which these non-religious flowers will be placed? Is an individual necessary to design and place these "heathen" flowers in a pleasing arrangement?
If so, and that person is a US citizen and a self-professed Christian, is that person NOT protected by the 1st Amendment from betraying her beliefs by being forced to participate in an event her faith defines as a sin?
Maybe you should let her know about this, because she said that she discussed the event with the customer herself.
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when Rob came in and -- and told me he was getting married, and I told him the reason I couldn't do his wedding,
What does heterosexual sodomy have to do with this case? You are bringing in issues that are not any part of this. You are not proving your argument by bringing in irrelevant facts you think support your opinion.
This case deals with the act of HOMOSEXUAL sex. TWO MEN. Not heterosexual sodomy. So discussing it, no matter how titillating you may find it, has nothing to do with the facts in this case.
In fact, I don't see anywhere within Leviticus that hetero sodomy is deemed an abomination.
Do you need me to cut and paste Leviticus 18:22 to educate you on what the issue is for the florist?
Baptists do object to heterosexual sodomy, they believe it is a sin. The teaching is that it violates God's plan, and is taught from some of the same verses used to teach that homosexuality is a sin. The florist is a Baptist.
What does heterosexual sodomy have to do with this case? You are bringing in issues that are not any part of this. You are not proving your argument by bringing in irrelevant facts you think support your opinion.
This case deals with the act of HOMOSEXUAL sex. TWO MEN. Not heterosexual sodomy. So discussing it, no matter how titillating you may find it, has nothing to do with the facts in this case.
In fact, I don't see anywhere within Leviticus that hetero sodomy is deemed an abomination.
Do you need me to cut and paste Leviticus 18:22 to educate you on what the issue is for the florist?
pocrite.
so the bible is ok with heterosexual sodomy but not homosexual sodomy? that's rich.
what does hetro sodomy have to do with the case. the act is the same, gay or straight. if you object to one but not the other it makes you a hypocrite.
you don't have to cut and paste anything in the bible. most of it is up to interpretation which with this flower lady she picks which verse she will tout according to her interpretation. she has no problems selling flowers to other sinners just not these sinners.
if she wants to disciminate based on her religious beliefs she needs to get out of the retail business where she services the public. in america all people are equal not just the ones you approve of.
you said she objected to it based on her belief that homosexuality is a sin. FYI what about the sins of hetros? many engage in the same type of sexual activity gay people do. should she ask each straight couple wanting a wedding cake if they engage in this kind of "sin"? what about other sins that hetros do that is against her religious beliefs? adultery, lying, stealing and the like?
I don't believe her objection was to their homosexuality, but rather to their marriage. To the florist marriage is a sacrament. That may not mean a lot to those who are not religiously oriented, but it is a very big deal to those who it is.
People can speculate as to what the florist would or would not do in any other situation so here is mine. If a 35 year old man came in and asked for help in finding just the right bouquet for his mistress or 14 year old girlfriend, my guess is the florist would not sell to him in the first and call the police in the second.
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Originally Posted by Ringo1
A business owner wants to use Jesus as an excuse to discriminate. Nothing new here. No different from those that wanted to serve 'Whites Only' in the name of their God.
I worship God too - but not the conservative whites only God.
Racist comments are never welcome.
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Originally Posted by Redgrasshat
I wonder if this religious moron would sell flowers that are going to be used for a shellfish and bacon celebration.
You seem to have little to no understanding of Christian theology.
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Originally Posted by Redgrasshat
Please calm down, I did not intend to create any ill will.
I'm just wondering how consistent this religious moron florist is, because I think consistency could go a long way, for instance does she just hate gay people as her lord commands or is she also out executing people that are working on the sabbath? Does she refuse to sell flowers to unmarried women that are not virgins?
Hunh.... you didn't to intend to create any ill will, but then go one to call her a moron, says she hates gay people.
Where is your evidence that she hates gay people? Does not wanting to participate in a gay wedding make you hateful? Does thinking homosexuality is a sin make you hateful?
Why does lefties always go the most extreme circumstances they can? If you don't agree with me you are hateful (or racist or sexist or homophobic or fill-in your favorite epithet). If you don't want to participate in a gay wedding then that means you want to stone people in the public square.
That you do not understand how incredibly offensive your words are is why we can not have civil dialogues in this country any more.
you want to continue to close your mind that the "sin" the shop owner objects to is not just limited to gays, but the only discrimination she engages in is with gays. you are not being genuine if you can't see that.
I just want to know if she'd sell me flowers for my working on the sabbath party.
Going back to the point, if you new a restaurant catered a gathering of the KKK voluntarily, would you infer that the restaurant, at the very least, did not oppose the views of the KKK?
I am not comparing homosexuality to the KKK. The focus is on whether a person could infer that a business that provides a service for an event is not opposed to the event.
Can you answer that question without deflecting?
No, I would infer that the restaurant likes to sell food to paying customers.
Nah, the constitution does not give these religious morons the right to discriminate against people on the basis of sexual orientation and waste our time with their anti-gay nonsense.
People are born gay, but people choose to join the KKK.
Ad hominem attacks reflect more on you than those you call names.
[quote=TimTheEnchanter;39047950]I don't believe her objection was to their homosexuality, but rather to their marriage. To the florist marriage is a sacrament. That may not mean a lot to those who are not religiously oriented, but it is a very big deal to those who it is.
People can speculate as to what the florist would or would not do in any other situation so here is mine. If a 35 year old man came in and asked for help in finding just the right bouquet for his mistress or 14 year old girlfriend, my guess is the florist would not sell to him in the first and call the police in the second.
the objection she has is one in the same be it marriage between two men or her idea of sexual sin. if she doesn't want to sell flowers to certain people, be it a man with a mistress or a gay couple then she needs to find a new job where her issues won't cause her to discriminate. religion may be very scared to some, that doesn't mean you get to discriminate. it would be interesting to know if this lady has been divorced or not or if she has any objections to making flowers for a second wedding. tons of straight people marry and divorce I doubt she is so religious she has a problem with that.
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