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Israel's Nuclear proliferation is tolerated because ideologically and politically it is western in it's origin. They are very "European" in many ways, and much more so than traditionally middle eastern by comparison.
That being said, they are a far more stable country/economy than the surrounding countries by comparison. I think our tolerance for their nukes as a chess piece on the map is because they do in fact keep the other countries around them unstable...which essentially works to the benefit of both Israel and the US.
Israel has been trying to expand it's territory since it's founding. The Zionist Likud party has been trying to create settlements and push the Israelis in other countries for years now. Personally, I think if this every does happen, they will probably become less of our allie, and begin strictly working on their own interests.
Let's not forget that the vast majority of that land was taken during Arab aggression that backfired on the aggressors (Six day War). Some would call that irony or poetic justice! And to their credit, notably returned lands to Egypt!
As a result of the Six Day War:
"Israel seized control of the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula (from Egypt), the West Bank and East Jerusalem (from Jordan) and the Golan Heights (from Syria). The area under Israeli control tripled, significantly contributing to the country's defensibility, as would be shown in the subsequent Yom Kippur War. Although Israeli morale and international prestige was greatly increased by the outcome of the war, the resulting displacement of civilian populations would have long-term consequences. 300,000 Palestinians fled the West Bank and about 100,000 Syrians left the Golan to become refugees. Across the Arab world, Jewish minority communities were expelled. Israel made peace with Egypt following the Camp David Accords of 1978 and completeď a staged withdrawal from the Sinai in 1982"
Let's not forget that the vast majority of that land was taken during Arab aggression that backfired on the aggressors (Six day War). Some would call that irony or poetic justice! And to their credit, notably returned lands to Egypt!
People seem to see Israel as the only country expected to return territory seized in a war they didn't start. When Russia returns the Kuriles to Japan, China sets Tibet free and Poland is re-shifted east to allow the return of the expelled Germans I'll start pressuring Israel to make a phony peace.
People seem to see Israel as the only country expected to return territory seized in a war they didn't start. When Russia returns the Kuriles to Japan, China sets Tibet free and Poland is re-shifted east to allow the return of the expelled Germans I'll start pressuring Israel to make a phony peace.
You seem to expect Palestinians to accept silently their fate like if the creation of Israel was something rightful and just.
I won't even comment about Poland, perhaps you forgot how the US and UK blatantly sold it to Stalin without a thought.
You seem to expect Palestinians to accept silently their fate
Why not? Most of them are from the surrounding Arab countries anyway. Also most Palestinians haven't been accepting anything but Hamas and committing terrorist attacks within the borders of Israel constantly. There was one just yesterday
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like if the creation of Israel was something rightful and just
I say they ought to sign the NPT and subject themselves to the rules they care so much about enforcing on the Iranians.
After all, the HARDCORE orthodox Jews in Israel, who are multiplying faster even than the Palestinians, are just about as politico-religiously out there as the Ayatollahs, and will have waaaaaaaaay more seats in the Knesset in 20 or 30 years.
But Israel's special so they can do whatever they want to anyone and it's all in the name of freedom, right?
I'm just starting to read this thread.
I first admit that being Jewish, as I am doth not makes me a subject matter expert. But anything HARDCORE is more appears more equal to being Zionist than Orthodox. In the states, the HARDCORE Jewish shoot off (like a bad sect) are the Hasidics, who even my own father wished me luck in our local battles with them. They ignored laws and worse. They are extremists.
So, if you want to call the Orthodox Jews in Israel "hardcore," would you point us to a website? I'd like to look at it.
I don't think I need to do any kind of brief history leading to Israel but it was a strategic area for them that was given to them by the allies after WWII. It was likely a strategic placement and may have been on land the allies didn't own (like Palestinian land).
Sharon and Netanyahu are somewhat equivalent to war mongers we have in the U.S. But you might be a war monger if you had bombs targeting you any place or anywhere. You also might be a war monger if
you were sitting in the Middle East with a bullseye invisibly placed over your head that others may see.
No need to respond to your last fishing statement.
Why not? Most of them are from the surrounding Arab countries anyway. Also most Palestinians haven't been accepting anything but Hamas and committing terrorist attacks within the borders of Israel constantly. There was one just yesterday
Let's not roget that for every Israeli person killed there are 10 Palestinian casualties, so let's stop with the "Israel under siege" rhetoric.
While I do agree that both sides have their faults, it's undeniable that what the UN has done in 1948 is extremely arrogant as they literally implanted a new country on other's land.
Now, Israel isn't the angel most people want to make it pass: aside from having nuke when it oughtn't, aside from infringing International Law and UN resolution like a million times, aside from meddling into its neighbours' policy, it still remains the fact that it has been almost 3 generations that Palestinians live in refugee camps.
I don't think Iran should have the bomb. I also don't think the United States should be the judge and jury as to who should be allowed to develop one.
The fear is Iran is crazy enough to actually use their bomb if they had one. The trouble is they probably feel the same about their so called enemies.
Mutual Assured Destruction was a term used during the arms race and it helped to keep the cold war in check but it is rather outdated today in this PC world with Sanctions being the preferred way of dealing with upstarts.
You seem to expect Palestinians to accept silently their fate like if the creation of Israel was something rightful and just.
I won't even comment about Poland, perhaps you forgot how the US and UK blatantly sold it to Stalin without a thought.
Rightful? Just? What does that have to do with history? The Palestinians may have gotten a bad deal, but their response has assured that generations of palestinians exist in poverty and violence. No one is persecuting them, they are acting the aggressor and harboring terrorism (Hamas). They could have assimilated and given their children a better life than the one they have chosen for them. It is akin to a ghetto becoming gentrified and it's previous inhabitants fighting for the good old days when being offered better opportunity. They chose a bad path and it has now become their legacy.
Yeah, and we wont get into Italy's role in that war either. BTW, you DID comment on Poland.
Let's not roget that for every Israeli person killed there are 10 Palestinian casualties, so let's stop with the "Israel under siege" rhetoric.
Not all of the casualties is caused by Israel so lets be clear on that. Again Israel isn't committing terrorist attacks. Israel under siege is very fitting since they are under siege on a daily bases.
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While I do agree that both sides have their faults, it's undeniable that what the UN has done in 1948 is extremely arrogant as they literally implanted a new country on other's land.
1948 is just the official date for Israel statehood. In 1920 the world organization of nations [League of Nations] proclaimed that land was to be a homeland for the Jews. Heck in 70 CE the land was called Land of Israel before the Romans committed genocide against the Jews and smashed the temple
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Now, Israel isn't the angel most people want to make it pass: aside from having nuke when it oughtn't, aside from infringing International Law and UN resolution like a million times, aside from meddling into its neighbours' policy, it still remains the fact that it has been almost 3 generations that Palestinians live in refugee camps.
No one said Israel is a angel. Israel has nukes and for good reasons. International law? UN resolution? Oh you mean the bias UN that does nothing but try to condemn Israel for any and everything, the same UN that ignores all the other things happening around the world yet want to write up BS resolutions. The very neighbors that want all Jews dead. Again most of those Palestinians are from surrounding Arab countries.
I first admit that being Jewish, as I am doth not makes me a subject matter expert. But anything HARDCORE is more appears more equal to being Zionist than Orthodox. In the states, the HARDCORE Jewish shoot off (like a bad sect) are the Hasidics, who even my own father wished me luck in our local battles with them. They ignored laws and worse. They are extremists.
So, if you want to call the Orthodox Jews in Israel "hardcore," would you point us to a website? I'd like to look at it.
My understanding is that the most ultra-orthodox Jewish sects don't even recognize the current state of Israel as legitimate.
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