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In relation to the West Bank only: Why do you think the Palestinian Authority repetitively states 1967 and not 1948? Is there something there that wasn't theirs in the first place? Think about it.
I am by no means an expert in negotiations.
My guess is that Palestinians In Madrid negotiations of Early 1990s thought since they are weak maybe it is better that they acquiesce faster and preserve some land. And since then they are for all intensive purposes stuck with that position.
It is ultimately for the Palestinians and the Israelis to decide how much they like to suffer and how willing they are to thrive by taking a deal they deem as not wholesome. So far in the case of Palestinians they are probably right not to take a deal that ensures they do not have state but rather a second British mandate only this time the Europeans who control their lives will be called Israelis.
The only reason I am wasting my time here is to counter the massive amount of propaganda that is every day shoved down America's throat.
but the reality is History is written by those who win. and it is not necessarily in an accurate fashion.
Mind you that before 1900s there was a small Jewish population that lived in the land of Palestine along with all other folks (Druze , Muslims, Christians ,...) there. But since outside interference was limited though not completely peaceful they lived together the best they could.
Then we (the White people of Europe and U.S) in 1910-1940 time frame decided that we are antisemitic; we don't like jews in Europe and we don't like them immigrating to the new world ( U.S or Canada) either. Thus we decided that since Britain has already colonized the land of Palestine and in essence owns it. we shall gradually push out our Jewish folks to that colony.
well needless to say the Europeans were technologically superior and they won most of the conflicts.
but we forgot to tell our Native Americans to go over there and the teach the Palestinians that resistance to colonization only leads to more suffering.
to this day we create some headline in the news media
that depicts Palestinians as evil for wanting to live in the land they were born in. the land in which their forefathers have continuously lived in for hundreds of generations.
But we paint a totally rosy picture of Russians, Ukrainians and other eastern Europeans who day by day arrive on the boat to live in a land that only decades or in some cases years ago was somebody else's home.
and we call ourselves defenders of Human Rights.
This is not all to say Palestinians do not deserve blame. If I were them I would accept that I am technologically weak and will never win by physically trying to resist. I would shame those corrupt Arab dictators to help me financially so I can educate my people and put forth a totally non-violent resistance (Gandhi Esque) movement forward that hopefully in a few decades would come to fruition. It is of course impossible to implement.
Not sure there is a place to donate so perhaps it is paid for in donation for lower income teens?
Accomplishes nothing. These teens aren't the ones with the guns and explosives, not the ones in charge, and will likely never be in a position to change anything, that's had several hundred years head start.
I am by no means an expert in negotiations.
My guess is that Palestinians In Madrid negotiations of Early 1990s thought since they are weak maybe it is better that they acquiesce faster and preserve some land. And since then they are for all intensive purposes stuck with that position.
It is ultimately for the Palestinians and the Israelis to decide how much they like to suffer and how willing they are to thrive by taking a deal they deem as not wholesome. So far in the case of Palestinians they are probably right not to take a deal that ensures they do not have state but rather a second British mandate only this time the Europeans who control their lives will be called Israelis.
The only reason I am wasting my time here is to counter the massive amount of propaganda that is every day shoved down America's throat.
but the reality is History is written by those who win. and it is not necessarily in an accurate fashion.
Mind you that before 1900s there was a small Jewish population that lived in the land of Palestine along with all other folks (Druze , Muslims, Christians ,...) there. But since outside interference was limited though not completely peaceful they lived together the best they could.
Then we (the White people of Europe and U.S) in 1910-1940 time frame decided that we are antisemitic; we don't like jews in Europe and we don't like them immigrating to the new world ( U.S or Canada) either. Thus we decided that since Britain has already colonized the land of Palestine and in essence owns it. we shall gradually push out our Jewish folks to that colony.
well needless to say the Europeans were technologically superior and they won most of the conflicts.
but we forgot to tell our Native Americans to go over there and the teach the Palestinians that resistance to colonization only leads to more suffering.
to this day we create some headline in the news media
that depicts Palestinians as evil for wanting to live in the land they were born in. the land in which their forefathers have continuously lived in for hundreds of generations.
But we paint a totally rosy picture of Russians, Ukrainians and other eastern Europeans who day by day arrive on the boat to live in a land that only decades or in some cases years ago was somebody else's home.
and we call ourselves defenders of Human Rights.
This is not all to say Palestinians do not deserve blame. If I were them I would accept that I am technologically weak and will never win by physically trying to resist. I would shame those corrupt Arab dictators to help me financially so I can educate my people and put forth a totally non-violent resistance (Gandhi Esque) movement forward that hopefully in a few decades would come to fruition. It is of course impossible to implement.
All this commentary which basically flies off in many directions and you couldn't answer a simple question. Try again.
I sometimes wonder if Hamas and the PLO are bullies to their own people and that many Palestinians desperately want peace with Israel but are scared to speak up so they remain silent?
If that's true, then we should hire Palestinians to do all our Movies, because they make it look realistic that almost every Palestinian is with them.
To wonder what you are wondering, you would also have to wonder if all the Palestinians on TV cheering for HAMAS are stage props. You would have to wonder if its HAMAS that actually dig all those tunnels, and build all those rockets.
I would also wonder where you saw "silent" Palestinians? Each tome I see them, they are pretty loud supporting HAMAS.
Accomplishes nothing. These teens aren't the ones with the guns and explosives, not the ones in charge, and will likely never be in a position to change anything, that's had several hundred years head start.
For the most part you are correct. Listening to the accents and how well they all speak English, they brought in well educated Jews and Arabs who are not from the confrontation areas. If they want true dialog then they need to bring the Arabs from Hebron and Jews from Sderot who actually deal with the reality on the ground.
If that's true, then we should hire Palestinians to do all our Movies, because they make it look realistic that almost every Palestinian is with them.
To wonder what you are wondering, you would also have to wonder if all the Palestinians on TV cheering for HAMAS are stage props. You would have to wonder if its HAMAS that actually dig all those tunnels, and build all those rockets.
I would also wonder where you saw "silent" Palestinians? Each time I see them, they are pretty loud supporting HAMAS.
I am by no means an expert in negotiations.
My guess is that Palestinians In Madrid negotiations of Early 1990s thought since they are weak maybe it is better that they acquiesce faster and preserve some land. And since then they are for all intensive purposes stuck with that position.
It is ultimately for the Palestinians and the Israelis to decide how much they like to suffer and how willing they are to thrive by taking a deal they deem as not wholesome. So far in the case of Palestinians they are probably right not to take a deal that ensures they do not have state but rather a second British mandate only this time the Europeans who control their lives will be called Israelis.
The only reason I am wasting my time here is to counter the massive amount of propaganda that is every day shoved down America's throat.
but the reality is History is written by those who win. and it is not necessarily in an accurate fashion.
Mind you that before 1900s there was a small Jewish population that lived in the land of Palestine along with all other folks (Druze , Muslims, Christians ,...) there. But since outside interference was limited though not completely peaceful they lived together the best they could.
Then we (the White people of Europe and U.S) in 1910-1940 time frame decided that we are antisemitic; we don't like jews in Europe and we don't like them immigrating to the new world ( U.S or Canada) either. Thus we decided that since Britain has already colonized the land of Palestine and in essence owns it. we shall gradually push out our Jewish folks to that colony.
well needless to say the Europeans were technologically superior and they won most of the conflicts.
but we forgot to tell our Native Americans to go over there and the teach the Palestinians that resistance to colonization only leads to more suffering.
to this day we create some headline in the news media
that depicts Palestinians as evil for wanting to live in the land they were born in. the land in which their forefathers have continuously lived in for hundreds of generations.
But we paint a totally rosy picture of Russians, Ukrainians and other eastern Europeans who day by day arrive on the boat to live in a land that only decades or in some cases years ago was somebody else's home.
and we call ourselves defenders of Human Rights.
This is not all to say Palestinians do not deserve blame. If I were them I would accept that I am technologically weak and will never win by physically trying to resist. I would shame those corrupt Arab dictators to help me financially so I can educate my people and put forth a totally non-violent resistance (Gandhi Esque) movement forward that hopefully in a few decades would come to fruition. It is of course impossible to implement.
I truly believe that if the Palestinians had protested in the same way as Gandi they would have already gotten everything they wanted and there would be peace.
I am not here to educate you with basic news stories.
for if you don't really know that Palestinians have called for their state within the confines of 1967 borders then there are only two possible scenarios.
You have been living under a rock.
You are woefully ignorant and are here to spit out your industrial War Machine Propaganda.
p.s I am more of libertarian
I apologize. I initially miss-read your comment thinking something else.
Yes you are correct, Abbas demands the 1967 borders. And that's fine, because viva la status quo. International Law asks for mutual negotiations with a peace agreement. 67 borders is a non starter considering Israel does not have to withdraw to the 6/4/67 lines.
You do have some unfinished business from another thread that you skipped. Just a gentle reminder I did not forget about you blaming the juice state responsibility of U.S hardships.
Last edited by BMoreJuice; 03-07-2015 at 03:04 PM..
I am by no means an expert in negotiations.
My guess is that Palestinians In Madrid negotiations of Early 1990s thought since they are weak maybe it is better that they acquiesce faster and preserve some land. And since then they are for all intensive purposes stuck with that position.
It is ultimately for the Palestinians and the Israelis to decide how much they like to suffer and how willing they are to thrive by taking a deal they deem as not wholesome. So far in the case of Palestinians they are probably right not to take a deal that ensures they do not have state but rather a second British mandate only this time the Europeans who control their lives will be called Israelis.
The only reason I am wasting my time here is to counter the massive amount of propaganda that is every day shoved down America's throat.
but the reality is History is written by those who win. and it is not necessarily in an accurate fashion.
Mind you that before 1900s there was a small Jewish population that lived in the land of Palestine along with all other folks (Druze , Muslims, Christians ,...) there. But since outside interference was limited though not completely peaceful they lived together the best they could.
Then we (the White people of Europe and U.S) in 1910-1940 time frame decided that we are antisemitic; we don't like jews in Europe and we don't like them immigrating to the new world ( U.S or Canada) either. Thus we decided that since Britain has already colonized the land of Palestine and in essence owns it. we shall gradually push out our Jewish folks to that colony.
well needless to say the Europeans were technologically superior and they won most of the conflicts.
but we forgot to tell our Native Americans to go over there and the teach the Palestinians that resistance to colonization only leads to more suffering.
to this day we create some headline in the news media that depicts Palestinians as evil for wanting to live in the land they were born in. the land in which their forefathers have continuously lived in for hundreds of generations.
But we paint a totally rosy picture of Russians, Ukrainians and other eastern Europeans who day by day arrive on the boat to live in a land that only decades or in some cases years ago was somebody else's home.
and we call ourselves defenders of Human Rights.
This is not all to say Palestinians do not deserve blame. If I were them I would accept that I am technologically weak and will never win by physically trying to resist. I would shame those corrupt Arab dictators to help me financially so I can educate my people and put forth a totally non-violent resistance (Gandhi Esque) movement forward that hopefully in a few decades would come to fruition. It is of course impossible to implement.
Your history of the region is poor. You contradicted your message about bring truth than propaganda.
The first and most important distinction is that, their is no debate that the ancestral homeland of Israel spiritually, culturally, historically and architecturally has a constant connection to the Jewish people for over 3000 years. Anything otherwise is intellectually dishonest and borderline Anti-Zionist. Israel was not created because "White people in Europe hated Jews and decided to call the British Consulate in Cairo and decided to put Jews there." Your entire passage regarding the British is wrong.
The Zionist movement actually began in the late 1800's and took significant strides after WWI. Besides the Jewish ancestral connection to the land of Israel, the decision of a Jewish homeland in Palestine was because of the Jewish contribution to the fall of the Ottoman Empire. The Jewish citizens of the Ottoman Empire created an intelligence group called the Nihli, which provided valuable intelligence reports for the British. The Nihili provided the key intelligence briefings due to their knowledge of the land, that helped the British defeat the Ottoman Empire. In addition, Jewish volunteerism in British ranks also helped the British sway its decisions.
The League of Nations did acknowledge the atrocities from gentile Europe. With the frameworks of the Balfour Declaration, the British under the LoN were to administer the land of Palestine to create the Jewish Homeland. Contrary to how the British behaved, the British had no legal title to the land, but the Jewish people. When we examine Palestine during the British Mandate, the Yushuv was a the only political structure during this time. The Arabs of Palestine did not have a structure of any merit, not until the Arab High Committee was created to mimic the Nazi Party. The Arabs were the AHC were killing just as many Arabs as Brits, and the structure of the government was not compared to the Yishuv.
I can go into greater detail but a point that should be made is that Israel was created artificially as equal as Syria, Lebanon, Jordan (illegally), Iraq, ect. One cannot deny the rights of the existence of Israel without equally denying the rights of the Arab State. Further more, the Arabs on behalf of the Palestinian Arabs decided in attempt to destroy Israel, not accept the UNGA 181 partition. They calculated, they lost, and the consequences must be suffered. The only losers here at the Palestinian civilians, In which the PA continues to make billions of dollars in free aid off the blood of its own people.
There would be peace tomorrow if only the PLO and the Arabs (aside from Jordan - the only Arab nation to recognize the existence of Israel) would simply recognize that Israel has a right to exist.
Time and time again Israel has proposed withdrawing to the pre-1967 borders only to have the Arabs demand the total annihilation of Israel. The PLO won't be satisfied until every Israeli is dead or moves elsewhere.
Not true, that's a diversion, the root issue is the occupation, PLO already recognized Israel since Oslo accord but in practice doesn't mean much, Israel continue to occupy and steal more land from the Palestinians.
Israel has to recognized a Palestinian State before it demands its recognition by the neighboring states
Israel trying to buy time and avoiding direct talk while grabbing more land to make it impossible for Palestinians to have their state.
Not true, Israel has refused and Nothin-yahu rejected the 1967 internationally recognized borders.
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