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The 13-the 15th amendments were not constitutionally ratified with a representation of all the states it would be enforced upon. They were ratified through unconstitutional maneuvers, well after the war was over and everyone went home and long after the south rejoined the union. The South was not represented by the people. They were represented by nullifying states rights, for representation.
The Constitution stood in the way of that... But did it. Like you said, they lost the war and were turned into the kings subjects.
The 13th Amendment was passed and ratified in 1865, no state the seceded was back in the union as a recognized state. For the 14th Amendment, only Tennessee was fully back in congress with Arkansas, Florida and North Carolina rejoining before full ratification with South Carolina rejoining the day it was ratified. For the 15th Amendment, Alabama and Louisiana joined congress to pass it through congress with Virginia and Mississippi rejoining congress before ratification, Texas joining the day it was ratified and Georgia joining afterwards.
The South wasn't represented but they lost, they were NOT recognized states at the time and therefore didn't have the rights of being a state and rather was treated as military territories and controlled by martial law until they were welcomed back into the union as recognized states.
The 13th Amendment was passed and ratified in 1865, no state the seceded was back in the union as a recognized state. For the 14th Amendment, only Tennessee was fully back in congress with Arkansas, Florida and North Carolina rejoining before full ratification with South Carolina rejoining the day it was ratified. For the 15th Amendment, Alabama and Louisiana joined congress to pass it through congress with Virginia and Mississippi rejoining congress before ratification, Texas joining the day it was ratified and Georgia joining afterwards.
The South wasn't represented but they lost, they were NOT recognized states at the time and therefore didn't have the rights of being a state and rather was treated as military territories and controlled by martial law until they were welcomed back into the union as recognized states.
Why does it say that all those states you listed that were not back in the union, ratified it as if they were?????
Why does it say that all those states you listed that were not back in the union, ratified it as if they were?????
As was mentioned several times before, the Confederate states had to ratify the 14th before re-admittance.
Tennessee was the first to apply for readmittance, and was allowed back into the union before the 14th had gained enough votes to make it constitutional. Tennessee then voted for the 14th after it was in the union.
Florida and Georgia followed and then the other states followed. Texas was the last holdout. When and how a former Confederate state was re-admitted depended on the time frame.
Like all constitutional amendments, the 14th did not instantly pass. It always took a year or more for every state to vote and ratify an amendment. Ratification is, and should be, a difficult process. Given the mood of the times, I'm pretty sure the 13th, 14th and 15th took less time than most to be passed, but it still would have taken at least a year and probably several for the 14th.
And the former states decided for themselves how long they wanted to tolerate martial law. Texas must have liked it quite a lot to hold out for over 5 years after the war ended.
Remember there was no force in former confederate states to become states of the union. The union just said these are the conditions if you don't want to be a territory anymore. The same as if Puerto Rico wanted to become the 51st state or the northern part of California became its own state. The only difference being the terms was to adhere to the newly ratified amendments. Which most southern states actually didn't into the 1960's with Jim Crow laws and the poll taxes and tests.
I've always been fascinated by the Civil War and studied a little on this very topic. The way certain reconstruction amendments were ratified is a bit odd. According to the official Union position, Southern States were never independent of the Union, though they were in rebellion. If Southern States were never independent of the Union, it goes to reason that their votes were required for the amendment process (they were, thus, allowed to vote without coercion, any way they chose on the amendments). While the Congress can suspend members under extreme circumstances, it cannot change the ratification process. Note, I'm not complaining that the amendments were ultimately ratified, but this is an interesting conversation nonetheless.
There were plenty of state admissions that came with conditions. Louisiana had to make English its language. Utah had to ban polygamy. Why couldn't ratification of the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments be among those conditions?
The Confederacy LOST. As we've seen in history, the losers of war if they aren't conquered, are sanctioned heavily. World War 1 with German sanctions and Austria-Hungry being broken into two different nations anyone?
Only in Obama-land Amusement Park is the result any different. Israel is supposed to accept the surrender of properties it won in a war started by the other side.
The 13-the 15th amendments were not constitutionally ratified with a representation of all the states it would be enforced upon. They were ratified through unconstitutional maneuvers, well after the war was over and everyone went home and long after the south rejoined the union. The South was not represented by the people. They were represented by nullifying states rights, for representation.
The Constitution stood in the way of that... But did it. Like you said, they lost the war and were turned into the kings subjects.
You can repeat yourself as much as you want. They lost a war.
And keep in mind that some of the states seceded after the South Carolina fired on Fort Sumter, when it was clear that the Union was, at the very least, not surrendering Federal property in the states in rebellion. Those states were Virginia, North Carolina, Arkansas and Tennessee. At the very least those states, which held the lion's share of the South's economic viability, knew the program.
Only in Obama-land Amusement Park is the result any different. Israel is supposed to accept the surrender of properties it won in a war started by the other side.
Different topic, Israel can and does occupy the Palestinian territories. Had the South never joined back into the Union, we might be talking about how we should just let these occupied territories go today.
Only in Obama-land Amusement Park is the result any different. Israel is supposed to accept the surrender of properties it won in a war started by the other side.
This red herring stinks to high heaven.
What, exactly, does Israel have to do with the 13th and 14th amendments? Go peddle yer papers down the block.
That's just it. The Southern State didn't want to re-apply. They just fought a bloody war to gain their independence. A war that never should have been fought.
That's not what I read. After the defeat of the Confederacy when the Southern states were divided into military districts ... those states were tired of being a conquered military district and wanted re-admittance into the Union. Didn't people like Vice President Alexander Hamilton Stephens, General Beauregard, General Wade Hampton, etc. go into politics and were elected into office as US citizens a few years (1876) later?
Anyway, why oh why are some people still still fighting the Civil War? It was 150 years ago! I hate sore winners and sore losers.
Do you think Europeans sit around still passionately debating The 100 Years War?
Oy vey ... move on.
Last edited by Clark Park; 03-14-2015 at 06:36 PM..
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