Let's Get Rid of Medicare Too (politicians, compared, economic, financial)

[InformedConsent]

Originally Posted by Seacove

While Medicare recipients paid into the program, their contributions are no where near the level of benefits they are receiving. If you gave them the highest possible credit for the contributions they made, say $3000 per year for 50 years, that would equal $150,000 and they didn't come anywhere near contributing that much.

What about the time value of that money and how it would have grown exponentially if the federal government had been an appropriate steward of that investment? Just adding contributions isn't sufficient. Had that money been invested instead, the final amount would have been much higher than just the contribution amount.

IOW, you're full of sh*t.

Then, I guess, we need to look at ending public education too because everyone pays for schools and not everyone has children.

I suggest we go in the other direction and force EVERYONE to pay for health insurance, because EVERYONE would actually use it.

[InformedConsent]

Originally Posted by ALackOfCreativity

What do you plan on calling this idea? AMWORKS has a nice ring to it.

House of Cards. LOL!

[InformedConsent]

Originally Posted by Seacove

Why should I pay more for Medicare while I watch those younger than 65 struggle?

Because that's how socialized health care gets funded:

"UC Davis's Peter Lindert has argued in his book "Growing Public" that European social democracies were only able to develop the programs they did because they used efficient consumption taxes that didn't lower growth as much as progressive income taxes, particularly those on capital income. European countries needed tax systems that could raise a lot of money without hurting growth, and only regressive consumption taxes fit the bill.

Other countries don’t have a “47%” - The Washington Post

Embrace the suck, and pay up!!!

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Paying for treatment for old people who are long past the point of usefulness is what is dragging down our entire medical care system. There needs to be a tapering of benefits such that people over a certain age - say 75 - no longer get anything but preventive and hospice care. No bypasses, no hips, no knees.

Get back to us with this brilliant plan when you're 70.

[carterstamp]

Ask yourselves what benefits you get from your part of your employer's covered insurance premiums, and you'll come up with similar numbers. So take the end Medicare crap and stick it where the sun don't shine.

[carterstamp]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Paying for treatment for old people who are long past the point of usefulness is what is dragging down our entire medical care system. There needs to be a tapering of benefits such that people over a certain age - say 75 - no longer get anything but preventive and hospice care. No bypasses, no hips, no knees.

then you'd better consider ending it before you reach that age. Oh, and let your parents/grandparents in on your plan. I'll bet they'll be tickled to death you care so much for them.

[Seacove]

Originally Posted by carterstamp

Ask yourselves what benefits you get from your part of your employer's covered insurance premiums, and you'll come up with similar numbers. So take the end Medicare crap and stick it where the sun don't shine.

Whatsamatter? You don't want to pay for your own health care coverage? No one wants to take your money. We could give you your contribution back in full in the form of health coverage. Maybe you paid in $25,000, maybe you paid $75,000. And we could add interest to that and even give you the portion your employer paid which would double it.

You can take that $100,000 and use it to pay for your health coverage from 65 until you run out of money. Go shop on the open market and pay like those that are working do.

Of course it might be more expensive for a 70 year old with heart trouble, a bad hip and high blood pressure but we need to end this socialized Medicare.

[carterstamp]

Originally Posted by Seacove

Whatsamatter? You don't want to pay for your own health care coverage? No one wants to take your money. We could give you your contribution back in full in the form of health coverage. Maybe you paid in $25,000, maybe you paid $75,000. And we could add interest to that and even give you the portion your employer paid which would double it.

You can take that $100,000 and use it to pay for your health coverage from 65 until you run out of money. Go shop on the open market and pay like those that are working do.

Of course it might be more expensive for a 70 year old with heart trouble, a bad hip and high blood pressure but we need to end this socialized Medicare.

I already did, sparky. I worked for 45 years. And I knew my taxes were going for the generation before me. And guess what, I didn't throw tantrum one because I figured they earned it by raising my ass to be a decent human being.

When you put in a lifetime of work, then you can ***** and moan. Otherwise, put your adult panties on. and qwicherbitchin.

[Mircea]

Ladies & Gentlemen......

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Paying for treatment for old people who are long past the point of usefulness is what is dragging down our entire medical care system. There needs to be a tapering of benefits such that people over a certain age - say 75 - no longer get anything but preventive and hospice care. No bypasses, no hips, no knees.

Originally Posted by natalie469

Give me a break. We are talking about people in their 80's and 90's. Do you really think they want to go through chemo if they have colon cancer or any other cancer What is the point with that.

...Doctor & Mrs. Mengele have arrived.

How useful are the Comatose?

I guess they do have some redeeming value....bed-pad training for newbies.

Originally Posted by Jo48

My husband, going back almost 10 years to before he was a Senior, has had five hospitalizations totaling many hundreds of thousands of dollars (not counting all the other procedures, labs, etc.).

I call total BS.

The total cost of your husband's healthcare was less than $30,000.

The fact that you don't understand how and why your system of Medical Care works, doesn't alter the Truth.

It's a known fact that in 2011, the cost of quadruple heart by-pass was $13,000 including profit margin.

What is the profit margin?

I don't know.

It could be 10%, 20%, 100% or 500%.

It's also a fact that hospitals [in the Market in which I reside] charge $26,000 to $41,000 for a quadruple heart by-pass.

If you people cannot see how you are being raped and skewered by the AHA hospital monopoly, then there is no help for you.

Originally Posted by Seacove

Those who oppose the ACA have no problem painting everyone with a broad brush.

If the shoe fits.

ACA supporters are 100% ignorant, expect for those that are 100% willfully ignorant.

Originally Posted by Seacove

That is what Medicare is.

So are Food Stamps. And HUD Housing. And.....

Just as soon as you end those programs.

Originally Posted by Seacove

Didn't you agree and say you would support the ending of Medicare yourself?

Fallacy.

Misrepresentation
If the misrepresentation occurs on purpose, then it is an example of lying. If the misrepresentation occurs during a debate in which there is misrepresentation of the opponent’s claim, then it would be the cause of a straw man fallacy.

There's a right way to do things, and a wrong way.

Yes, many Conservatives desire to end Medicare and Social Security, but there is a right way to do it.

The right way is to create three groups of people.

• Those who because of age will stay in the programs to the bitter end;
• Those who because of age will never be in the programs; and
• Those in the Middle who will have the choice of opting out or staying in as it benefits them.

Only a Left-Wing Control Freak would present something Black & White.

Originally Posted by Seacove

And don't forget Medicare Part D. That was completely unfunded and could be abolished tomorrow.

The SMI Trust Funds are solvent.

It is the HI Trust Fund that is not solvent.

Maybe one day you'll actually read the Medicare Trustees Report, and then you won't mislead anyone any more.

Originally Posted by Seacove

I would be fine with single payer. But that will never happen as long as half are are receiving health coverage off the backs of the other half.

It's also unconstitutional.

Originally Posted by Seacove

Do posts like that really convince anyone?

They convince people you're misleading them.

Medicare begins at age 65, not 62.

You do not get full retirement benefits at 62.

You get full benefits at full retirement age only.

If a Boomer retires at 62 with reduced benefits, their benefits will never increase -- excepting for COLA.

When a Boomer retires at 62 and then reaches full retirement age at 66 years and 9 months or whatever it might be for their cohort, their benefits will not increase.

I want to make sure forum members are not harmed by the disinformation you present.

Originally Posted by Seacove

A person that contributes $30-40,000 over fifty years,....

Misleading people again.

It's $30,000 to $40,000 plus accrued interest.

Which part of "HI Trust Fund" do you not understand?

Originally Posted by Seacove

....who then retires at 65 and starts getting medical coverage that includes hip replacements, heart bypasses, cancer treatments and more, all of which cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, is not paid for.

But it doesn't cost "hundreds of thousands of dollars."

Your healthcare system is two components:

1] Medical care
2] the payment system

You do not have, and have not had, Free Market medical care since 1933.

What you have had and still have is a monopoly.

This monopoly illegally colludes to illegally fix prices and rapes Americans.

This monopoly price-gouges and rapes Americans.

This monopoly over-bills and rapes Americans.

This monopoly illegally colludes to fix open-heart surgery costs at $26,000 to $41,000 which is double to triple Free Market prices.

This monopoly price-gouges charging $117,000 for 4 hours for an assistant surgeon (which means s/he got paid more than the actual surgeon) ---- price gouges a Canadian couple $1.3 Million for a $65,000 complicated premature birth.

And then over-bills charging $17 for 2 Tylenol tablets.

If you want affordable healthcare, then implement Free Market reforms....

Mircea

[Seacove]

Originally Posted by carterstamp

then you'd better consider ending it before you reach that age. Oh, and let your parents/grandparents in on your plan. I'll bet they'll be tickled to death you care so much for them.

Why should those that are younger care about Medicare recipients when Medicare recipients don't care about the younger generation?

Medicare recipients call anyone that supports ACA/Obamacare losers, thieves, "takers", you name it. Yet those same Medicare recipients had no trouble accepting the huge Medicare Part D giveaway boondoggle. They loved that giveaway.

If the younger generation, who is paying the highest health care rates in US history, need to end "socialism", Medicare should end too. And Medicare Part D should end immediately.

If government health care is bad, it's bad. If socialism is evil, let's end it. If the ACA is taking money out of your neighbors wallet, then Medicare recipients need to stop taking money out of the younger generation's wallet.