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Old 03-21-2015, 05:50 PM
 
62,677 posts, read 28,868,753 times
Reputation: 18460

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorrysda View Post
Medicare is, indeed, paid for by those earning a paycheck. Medicare would be just fine and solvent if the Feds had kept their hands out of the till to steal the $'s there. This is supposed to be a restricted account. IOU's, as I have said before, do NOT earn interest!

In addition, Medicare should only be used by those who paid into it, as should Social Security that has the same "theft" problem in addition to being paid to many who never paid into that fund.



Apples and oranges. Public Education is paid by the local tax payers...not the Federal Government...as it should be. Actually the Fed Department of Education should be abolished. Education should be in the hands of only the local School Boards with very little overlook by each State.
Exactly! Note how he advocates for vouchers for seniors to shop for their own medical coverage and then laughs his arse off that it's not possible because he knows they'd be lucky to find an insurance company that would cover them or if they did they'd have to stop eating to pay for it? My what a great solution he has! It's just based on his hatred for our elderly and it is just sickening. I wonder what he'll do when he becomes a senior if his dream comes true? Would he be laughing is arse off then? What a hypocritical, hateful piece of work he is!

 
Old 03-21-2015, 05:53 PM
 
21,989 posts, read 15,648,158 times
Reputation: 12943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Exactly! Note how he advocates for vouchers for seniors to shop for their own medical coverage and then laughs his arse off that it's not possible because he knows they'd be lucky to find an insurance company that would cover them or if they did they'd have to stop eating to pay for it? My what a great solution he has! It's just based on his hatred for our elderly and it is just sickening. I wonder what he'll do when he becomes a senior if his dream comes true? Would he be laughing is arse off then? What a hypocritical, hateful piece of work he is!
The vouchers are proposed by your beloved Republican Party on Tuesday. They want to privatize Medicare with vouchers. They want to cut Medicare benefits based on "undisclosed cost savings" and they want to kill the ACA/Obamacare. Don't blame me. I bet every single one of you vote Republican.

I'm laughing because the party you vote for is doing it to you.
 
Old 03-21-2015, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,407,718 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Not much. You're certainly not going to triple your money. CD's in the '90's paid in the 3-5% range.

But that is all an illusion. As are most of the arguments made here. Our Medicare tax money is not sequestered.

Medicare is more like a defined benefit plan, essentially guaranteed, and it makes little difference what anyone 'puts in'. Because for the most part payroll taxes are like ordinary Federal income taxes, although of course more regressive. The money taken out of our checks for FICA does not specifically go to our personal SS and Medicare accounts, and then paid back to us. Most of the money paid out comes from the General Fund.

So your argument applies to all Federal taxes paid over one's life. Not just Medicare. We all lose the time benefits of all that money we pay in. But then we get back all sorts of essentially guaranteed defined benefits from our Federal Gov't. Medicare is but one of those benefits.

And these guarantees are very important. Esp as it concerns SS and Medicare. Our personal investments are generally not guaranteed.
My mom's investments made a lot of money in the 90s. If we had just put it all in a box in the back yard, we could have paid for our kids' college educations. (She died in 1999.) However, her investments lost a lot of money in the early 2000s. The rest I am aware of.
 
Old 03-21-2015, 06:03 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,713 posts, read 44,496,734 times
Reputation: 13593
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel View Post
I'm going to keep hammering at this as long as you yammer. What would be the interest earned on that $122,000? Heck, even in a passbook savings account it would be quite a bit, especially in the 1990s. Please compute and tell us.
I've already tried working with him on that. It's over his head. He'll never understand the concept of compounded growth.
 
Old 03-21-2015, 06:06 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,713 posts, read 44,496,734 times
Reputation: 13593
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel View Post
My mom's investments made a lot of money in the 90s. If we had just put it all in a box in the back yard, we could have paid for our kids' college educations. (She died in 1999.) However, her investments lost a lot of money in the early 2000s. The rest I am aware of.
PLUS, we're talking about compounded growth over the span of 43 years. That'll rack up a HUGE amount of money, but that concept is over Seacove's head.
 
Old 03-21-2015, 06:16 PM
 
21,989 posts, read 15,648,158 times
Reputation: 12943
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
I've already tried working with him on that. It's over his head. He'll never understand the concept of compounded growth.
I've addressed this with you about 50 times. First, you started with hugely inflated numbers. When I pointed them out, you said household. When I gave you household, you said inflation. When I pointed out that your own article gave an example using inflation, you said interest. I when I pointed out your article showed a 2% interest, you said you wanted 11% . You also wanted to base it all the way back to 1960 - before Medicare existed - and you wanted to use $60,000 as a salary when in 1965, the average salary was $4,658. You tried to use numbers that came out to be a $1.5Million contribution which is beyond laughable considering your own posted article.

Medicare and Social Security: What you paid compared with what you get | PolitiFact

Further, that article gives the Medicare recipient credit for both the employer and employee contribution, plus inflation and 2% interest and calculates it in 2012 dollars. So giving you the best case scenario, you get

The couple will have paid $122,000 in Medicare taxes but will receive $387,000 in benefits — more than three times what they paid in.

There are many charts on that link as well that show you the same thing.Actually, if you are married and only one works, the Medicare recipient really underpays.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel View Post
However, her investments lost a lot of money in the early 2000s.
Some people think they are guaranteed a return based on Apple even though they might have invested in Enron.
 
Old 03-21-2015, 06:22 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,713 posts, read 44,496,734 times
Reputation: 13593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seacove View Post
I've addressed this with you about 50 times. First, you started with hugely inflated numbers.
You've been told repeatedly that you've made several mistakes.

1) You failed to use mean household income to account for both working and non-working spouses.

2) You failed to adjust for inflation.

3) You failed to factor in compounded growth.

You're in WAY over your head on this, and it is significantly beyond your grasp. You have NO clue of which you speak.
 
Old 03-21-2015, 06:25 PM
 
32,004 posts, read 36,637,449 times
Reputation: 13269
Seems like it would make more sense to compare Medicare to an insurance policy.

I figure that over the years I have paid in about $300,000 in private health insurance premiums (several times that when my family is included). Of course I've paid into Medicare on top of that.

However, what I've gotten back from insurance is less than 30% of that. The premiums have gone up every year. In addition, if I miss a payment the whole thing goes up in smoke and there's no credit for the money I've paid in the past. What's worse, until last year, I could never get insurance again -- at any price -- due to a pre-existing condition.
 
Old 03-21-2015, 06:26 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,713 posts, read 44,496,734 times
Reputation: 13593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seacove View Post
Further, that article gives the Medicare recipient credit for both the employer and employee contribution, plus inflation and 2% interest
2% is way too low for that time span. That's why that article's numbers are WAY off, and they even allude to that in the footnotes:

"...a 2 percent interest rate is tacked on top of that to mimic what would have happened to those dollars had they been put in a personal savings account. (Of course, using another percentage would make a difference.)"
 
Old 03-21-2015, 06:37 PM
 
21,989 posts, read 15,648,158 times
Reputation: 12943
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
2% is way too low for that time span. That's why that article's numbers are WAY off, and they even allude to that in the footnotes:

"...a 2 percent interest rate is tacked on top of that to mimic what would have happened to those dollars had they been put in a personal savings account. (Of course, using another percentage would make a difference.)"
Except 2% is a reasonable number. That money could have been lost just as easily. And you want to say the average household income in 1960 was $60,000. You're whole premise is based on false data. You post a link, I'm using that link. It's your link. It's not my fault you don't like interest.
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