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I am absolutely certain that those who say, "What you do in private is none of my business. What you do in private with a child is society's business", would be the first to freak out if you started examining or judging their lives in any way or imposing rules on them. Basically, do not tell me what to do in my home! Freedom!
For example, relative to a smoker affecting his neighbors:
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Originally Posted by TexasReb
Bottom line is this:
If the domain belong to the person who buys it, then they control it. I don't see any other alternative. If there is one, then what is it?
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Originally Posted by TexasReb
.. When a certain ilk of busybodies (smoking is the cause celebre' at the moment) start to intrude on the private property rights of others, then there is no logical stopping point.
...
Yes, no logical stopping point. Like choosing who gets to raise kids!
All about freedom for one's self and controlling others!
=shaker281;38900346]Just saying ad hominem and red herring and straw man and ad-absurdum doesn't make it so.
I didn't say ad-hominem, but I did use the others. And I did so because they applied. Anyway, I have to get to work. Believe what you want and I will do the same. And I say again, never did nature say one thing and wisdom another. Have a nice day!
=burdell;38900361] The Daughter of a lesbian couple has come out against gay marriage
The son of a straight couple has come out and said he was abducted by aliens from Pluto, does that prove there's life on Pluto?
Just caught this before logging out. To answer, your analogy makes no sense. The daughter was raised by gay parents. So while it may be her opinion only, it is backed by her own experience.
On the other hand? Obviously there is no life on Pluto. This is a non-sequitur.
It is not part of the Bill of Rights as you advanced. So answer my questions. Which you seem adept at avoiding.
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Originally Posted by TexasReb
Deflection on your part. What we are talking about has to do with children raised from infancy by same-sex couples, which deprives the child of both a male and female in their lives. The way nature intended it.
Deflection is ignoring that I quoted the Constitution because I said "Bill of Rights". Nature has infinite variation. Are you of the mind that homesexuality is a "choice"? Not deprived (your opinion), different. Variety is the spice of life.
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Originally Posted by TexasReb
Hetero's from raising children? What we are talking about is an adopted child -- because obviously the only way a same-sex couple can have a child is by something artificial -- and if adoption is the issue, then the adopting couple should be opposite sex.
The woman who wrote this letter was conceived quite naturally. My wife had three male role models. All (hetero) neglectful or abusive pricks. It was not optimal, I'll say that.
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Originally Posted by TexasReb
LMAO. You are one to talk about rationalizations and avoidance!
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Originally Posted by TexasReb
So were mine, but you keep avoiding them...
What questions are you asking? I guess you are looking for a line by line rebuttal? OK.
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Originally Posted by TexasReb
I don't know. I DO know that her experiences are horrific. She should never have been there to begin with if it was infant adoption...or conceived by artificial means.
If it fit the conditions perscribed by law, she should have been removed. The key words here are your "I don't know". Her natural father split. her mother could have picked another loser and she would have still had a letter to write.
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Originally Posted by TexasReb
Another deflection. Kids are going to experience taunting regardless. It is part of growing up. This has nothing to do with the type that the kids of same-sex couples will grow up with. And how they are cheated out of both a male and female in their lives
So address the problem. The misbehaving kid's with poor role models. Did your kids taunt those who were different? Not cheated (your opinion), blessed.
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Originally Posted by TexasReb
No. Obviously the laws don't apply equally to everyone. Kids can't vote. Violent convicted felons can't own firearms (except in some states, on their own property), and etc. But no rights are being denied homosexual couples in the proper sense of the term. That is, under the Bill of Rights. Or the right to equal protection when it comes to criminal statutes.
Now who's deflecting and using strawmen? Do I really have to rub your nose in it? You know we are talking about parents raising children here, not kid's voting or firearms. It is good to hear you would not restrict same sex couple from raising children. Is there a "special" sense of the term? A different set of laws for people who you disagree with? Now we are getting to it.
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Originally Posted by TexasReb
No. Unless the home environment is abusive. And then they should be placed with foster parents of opposite sex. I DO know though -- not only from real life experience, but that in my teaching career, that the boys who tended to grow up in the most trouble were those without a father figure in their lives.
Your anecdotes and attempt to claim expertise aside, that is most certainly a strawman. Yet, we do not restrict single parents from raising children. Do we?
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Originally Posted by TexasReb
Once again, the red-herring argument by using extreme examples. If the latter situation involves neglect or child-abuse then the child should be removed and placed in foster care with opposite sex parents. And you can do a dance worthy of Michael Jackson to skirt the issue, but a same-sex couple cannot provide -- no matter how loving they are -- the natural balance of a male and female in the child's lives.
They can provide something perfectly adequate or even better, as many have proven. Regardless, the test is not if a parental unit can provide an optimum environment, only an acceptable one. Shall we compare you to the best of class and possibly find you lacking?
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Originally Posted by TexasReb
See earlier answer to this question. Obviously, once a child begins to question why s/he has two mothers or fathers, then the "parents" are going to attempt to explain that the child-rearing situation is perfectly normal. But it isn't. Never did nature say one thing and wisdom another.
Oh I'm sure they will figure it out. I actually, know such people. Several professional couples, who did a bang up job. The test is not perfection. A test too many would fail.
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Originally Posted by TexasReb
Now then, answer my questions, as it does involve marriage. If homosexual marriage can be legalized, then why not brother and sister, or parent and child, or multiple partners?
I do not support incest. And would apply the same standard to polygamy as any other family unit. Still a classic strawman, as we are not talking about marriage!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by shaker281; 03-21-2015 at 07:04 AM..
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,329 posts, read 54,389,283 times
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Originally Posted by TexasReb
Just caught this before logging out. To answer, your analogy makes no sense. The daughter was raised by gay parents. So while it may be her opinion only, it is backed by her own experience.
And? Just what is it we're supposed to infer from one person's opinion and experience?
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Originally Posted by TexasReb
On the other hand? Obviously there is no life on Pluto. This is a non-sequitur.
Now then, have a nice day, you all!
Obviously? I'd say there's a much better chance of life in the universe somewhere besides earth than in one person's opinion and experience representing an entire group's.
“Growing up, and even into my 20s, I supported and advocated for gay marriage. It’s only with some time and distance from my childhood that I’m able to reflect on my experiences and recognise the long-term consequences that same-sex parenting had on me,” she said. “It’s only now, as I watch my children loving and being loved by their father each day, that I can see the beauty and wisdom in traditional marriage and parenting.”
I agree with her. Parents are best with both a Father and Mother.
Yeah, but this is about the right of every homosexual to place his or her personal need for acceptance over and above the needs of a vulnerable developing child.
How can we expect same-sex couples to feel normal if society doesn`t facilitate their need to play house with real babies?
Straw man. It is man's free will that is the correlative here; not hetero or homo nature and or behavior, per se. If your case is strong, then there is not one bit of need to use straw men arguments.
You effectively acknowledge the point, so if you are strong and mature in your belief, there is no need to throw up the straw men. You see what I mean?
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Originally Posted by jjrose
Like those traditional families that torture, rape, or kill their children?
Like the traditional families that toss their children out of the house if the are gay?
Like the traditional families that give their children up for adoption or have them removed for abuse or neglect?
No family is perfect. That includes "traditional families".
The entire premise here is that these SSC should not be parenting because there are challenges and it may not turn out optimally. Am I wrong?
How is the argument that this is universal to all family units a straw man?
Why are people suggesting that these SSCs be held to a different standard then everyone else?
Can someone address this without a long diatribe of deflection?
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