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Would Apple be discriminating, if they did not sell to countries that advocate death to homosexuals?
Yes it would and I would support their FREEDOM to do so. As a matter of fact it might just be the kicker that makes me pick an Apple product over a Microsoft product.
So you're okay with the Jim Crow era "No Blacks" sign in the door? You'd have no problem were it introduced today?
To say that a business shouldn't be under contrived constraints by the government concerning discrimination in no way means you have no problem with the discrimination.
I would walk past that business and not do business with them. I very well might join in a protest also.
How is saying that if you CHOOSE to open a business you have to follow the same laws as everyone else, regardless of your religious beliefs, shredding the first amendment?
You can have any belief you want, but you still have to follow the law. I can believe that god commands me to kill all who do not believe as I do, but I will be breaking the law if I actually kill someone.
I am somewhat conflicted on this issue. Still, there must be a line that can be drawn between religious liberty and equal treatment. A bookstore owner should not be forced to sell porn to those who want porn. A painter should have the right to refuse a commission for a painting of two people (be it gay or straight) engaging in sex acts. But isn't it the same issue here? A religious person does not want to market their services in support of something they think is immoral.
If a gay couple wants a generic wedding cake, then they should be able to buy a generic wedding cake from anyone. If they want it to be decorated in such a manner where the cake decorator is being forced to support gay marriage against his or her will, then that's wrong. If the gay couple wants a cake designed especially for them, then they're going to have to find somebody with no moral objection to it. In this day and age, that's not really all that difficult.
The thing that the LGBT community constantly dismisses as a non-issue but which will most certainly become a big issue: The day may come when ministers (especially those who charge money for their services) will be legally obligated to marry gay couples. Churches will be legally obligated to accept practicing homosexuals in full fellowship without limits. Religions which have always taught that homosexuality is wrong in the eyes of God will be forced to accept homosexuality as completely normal and acceptable.
No and if I observed it then I have the FREEDOM to walk out and tell everyone that will listen not to do business at that store.
Exactly. That's where all the statist fascists are getting this wrong.
Don't trample Constitutional rights. If a business's practices are objectionable, they'll lose their business and go bankrupt. How is that not a just outcome?
We both agree that discrimination is generally not a good thing, the only difference is how we handle it.
Agreed. And the thing about these discussions is (can be) that I see the merit to your view. I think it's important to consider these things from alternate viewpoints.
Especially when there is consensus on the objective, the method can be debated without rancor.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose
Choosing to sell to one but not the other is discrimination. Like selling to whites but not blacks is discrimination. Selling to heterosexuals but not homosexuals is discrimination. Selling to Christians, but not Hindus is discrimination.
Why would it be any different for Apple?
It's an ethics dilemma.
The countries that Apple is conducting business with, they allow for discrimination, so in doing business with those countries, Apple is also, allowing for discrimination practices, as well.
If a dog has fleas and a person lays down next to the dog, the person will also get fleas. But as the person gets up and moves away from the dog, they brush off the fleas. However, that doesn't take away the fact that the person had fleas on them.
Exactly. That's where all the statist fascists are getting this wrong.
Don't trample Constitutional rights. If a business's practices are objectionable, they'll lose their business and go bankrupt. How is that not a just outcome?
I can see your point, but this crap turns off any reasonable person from engaging your POV.
To say that a business shouldn't be under contrived constraints by the government concerning discrimination in no way means you have no problem with the discrimination.
I would walk past that business and not do business with them. I very well might join in a protest also.
That line of logic and action is frightening to modern day liberals.
I don't believe racism is as prevalent as some seem to think in this country, but I agree that the backlash from refusing someone due to racism would be significant.
I would also agree with this purely based on the fact that Apple sells iPhones, iPads, iCrap, etc., to people and in countries that execute gays, and there has never been any backlash over that in the U.S. So, it's quite clear that many of the people raising a stink over this are disgusting opportunistic hypocrites. That would include Hillary Clinton, by the way.
That said, Indiana's Governor had this to say about the law:
"I abhor discrimination. I believe in the Golden Rule that you should ‘do unto others as you would have them do unto you.’ If I saw a restaurant owner refuse to serve a gay couple, I wouldn’t eat there anymore."
But how many of you buy and still have Apple products? Hmmm...?
It's still quite prevalent. It's just the way it is. However it has been diluted by other forms of discrimination. I mean people can only hate so much. The US has learned to be more subtle with its racist tendencies.
I can see your point, but this crap turns off any reasonable person from engaging your POV.
Obviously not.
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