Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If "providing goods and/or services" is equivalent to "a participatory role," then I'd guess every Christian business opposed to gay marriage would need to close shop.
Not at all. Gays can buy all the cakes, flowers, photography portraits, etc., they want from any business they choose without having to face discrimination. They just cannot force any person or business to play a participatory role (provide goods and/or services) in a same-sex wedding ceremony if the business owner's religion prohibits same-sex marriage. Nothing trumps the First Amendment Constitutional right to exercise one's religion. Nothing.
I would have not problem doing anything for a Jew. It's not the same thing. Your Jewish beliefs are the "root stock" of my Christian beliefs. According to New Testament scripture, the Apostles taught that Gentile Christians are "Jews by adoption."
That's not what I have experienced.
Growing up as the only non-Protestant family in a very conservative Christian area of the country my family was treated like filth and subjected to a lot of violence, threats, and discrimination at the hands of our Christian neighbors. Even as recently as 3 years ago, a high school acquaintance reached out to me to inform me that the reason I was going through treatment for stage IV cancer at 24 years old was because I had not yet accepted Christ into my heart.
But that's not the point. My future marriage will be a Jewish one and my children will be raised Jewish and to thoroughly reject your false messiah. Does that not go against your Bible? Does that not open me up to discrimination?
Just because I disagree with the Christian lifestyle does not mean that my business has a right to follow suit. I expect the same from Christians (and all others) toward the GBLTQ community as well as religions that are not their own.
Religion is a choice. Sexuality is not. If your religion of choice is so hateful and insecure as to prevent you from participating in the joy of a couple's marriage, you chose poorly.
Not at all. Gays can buy all the cakes, flowers, photography portraits, etc., they want from any business they choose without having to face discrimination. They just cannot force any person or business to play a participatory role (provide goods and/or services) in a same-sex wedding ceremony if the business owner's religion prohibits same-sex marriage. Nothing trumps the First Amendment Constitutional right to exercise one's religion. Nothing.
If you're not going to respond to my points, then don't respond. Repeating the same nonsense over and over doesn't make it any more true.
If you can't recognize that the landscape has changed in the twenty two years since that law was passed than you should not be in politics. So no, it was not hard to have seen that the reaction was not going to be positive.I don't have an issue with them getting money either. As far as I am concerned one should not be punished for an opinion.
I am not in politics. I am a libertarian individualist who likes to argue on behalf of free and voluntary association that does not require coercion and compulsion.
I'll never be "in politics" because I'd need to lose 100 IQ points and all my common sense and critical thinking faculties to fit in with the crowd.
I do appreciate all the things that got revealed in all this:
The GOP is spineless, given how fast they scrambled to placate a voting bloc that wouldn't give them a single vote if they literally put guns to their heads. They'll soon be scrambling to do the same thing with illegal immigrants, which doing everything in their power placate, bribe, befriend and genuflect before people who will always vote Democrat no matter what.
Plenty of people in this country still value religious freedom and voluntary association and are saying so with GoFundMe donations and the anti-Marino + pro-O'Connor twitter/FB reactions. Perhaps the silent majority has decided to get loud now and again?
Plenty of people will not rest until the winners of the gay marriage battle have danced on the neck of every Christian in America
Plenty of people will not rest until Christians are driven away from their beliefs, into exile, or both
The court of public opinion is the 4th and most powerful branch of our government.
Not at all. Gays can buy all the cakes, flowers, photography portraits, etc., they want from any business they choose without having to face discrimination. They just cannot force any person or business to play a participatory role (provide goods and/or services) in a same-sex wedding ceremony if the business owner's religion prohibits same-sex marriage. Nothing trumps the First Amendment Constitutional right to exercise one's religion. Nothing.
Well, you obviously have missed over one hundred years of Supreme Court rulings that have said the exact opposite. No Constitutional right is absolute; they have limits.
The Supreme Court disagrees with you on this matter.
No, they do not. Show me where SCOTUS struck down the First Amendment:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
I am not in politics. I am a libertarian individualist who likes to argue on behalf of free and voluntary association that does not require coercion and compulsion.
I'll never be "in politics" because I'd need to lose 100 IQ points and all my common sense and critical thinking faculties to fit in with the crowd.
I do appreciate all the things that got revealed in all this:
The GOP is spineless, given how fast they scrambled to placate a voting bloc that wouldn't give them a single vote if they literally put guns to their heads. They'll soon be scrambling to do the same thing with illegal immigrants, which doing everything in their power placate, bribe, befriend and genuflect before people who will always vote Democrat no matter what.
Plenty of people in this country still value religious freedom and voluntary association and are saying so with GoFundMe donations and the anti-Marino + pro-O'Connor twitter/FB reactions. Perhaps the silent majority has decided to get loud now and again?
Plenty of people will not rest until the winners of the gay marriage battle have danced on the neck of every Christian in America
Plenty of people will not rest until Christians are driven away from their beliefs, into exile, or both
The court of public opinion is the 4th and most powerful branch of our government.
I don't think they cared so much about the voters as they did over the lost revenue. Most politicians realize that social issues rarely play a large part in elections.
Not at all. Gays can buy all the cakes, flowers, photography portraits, etc., they want from any business they choose without having to face discrimination. They just cannot force any person or business to play a participatory role (provide goods and/or services) in a same-sex wedding ceremony if the business owner's religion prohibits same-sex marriage. Nothing trumps the First Amendment Constitutional right to exercise one's religion. Nothing.
Well, when gays eat food, they use the energy from that food to have gay sex. That means any business can refuse to sell gay people food since doing so means the business is playing a participatory role in having gay sex.
To begin with, there is no reason to believe that this business was in any way targeted by anyone. A local news station decided to gauge opinion of a statewide legislative bill which has focused national and international attention and ridicule on the state of Indiana. This particular business was one of the establishments they surveyed.
You can find the video for the origanal news story here (a link to channel 57, South Bend, IN):
These quotes are from Crystal O'Connor, identified as the owner:
“If a gay couple was to come, like say, they wanted us to provide them pizza for a wedding, we would have to say no,”
“We are a Christian establishment.”
“We definitely agree with the bill,”
The above quotes make three things absolutely clear:
1--This business would specifically refuse service to someone seeking to purchase pizza for a gay wedding.
2--The premise for this refusal is a specific religious belief.
3--This business considers their right to refuse service to be linked to the relevant legislation.
As some have pointed out, Indiana provides no protection for discrimination based upon sexual orientation. Thus, the business has the legal right to refuse service. The problems this business is experiencing are not related to criminal law, civil law, or regulatory control. Rather, they are dealing with a cultural backlash against their overt bigotry.
Undoubtedly, there will be a certain number of people who share their biases, and who will give money to help further the cause of bigotry. Ironically, it is the State of Indiana which will suffer the most from this ridiculous legislative alliance with a Small number of hatemongers.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
