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Old 01-15-2008, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
13,450 posts, read 15,871,760 times
Reputation: 5244
Default Unions - Positive or Negative ?

Multiple threads have been initiated the past few weeks concerning the high number of folks working in jobs which do not provide health care insurance, the elimination of many pension plans and the lack of adequate cost of living increases to allow employees keep pace with the cost of living.

A major change during the past 30 years has been the erosion of union influence and protection. This has been due to multiple reasons, such as the export of jobs, opening of free trade, currency changes, enhanced technology allowing remote access and automation/robotics.

My question is this, do you think that we were better off with strong unions and the influence they had in the workplace, or do you think we are better off with a less organized employer/employee relationship?
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Old 01-15-2008, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 23,887,359 times
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IMO, we are generally much better off without Unions.

With a few exceptions, Unions have not been benificial to their members. In fact, there have been some examples in the recent past where the Unions actually hurt the membership - while the Union leaders lined their own pockets. One example was the Grocery strike in California. Another not to many years ago was the Culinary union strike against the Frontier Hotel in Las Vegas - YEARS went by. The property ended up being sold and the members got nothing out of the deal -

ETC
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Old 01-15-2008, 04:22 PM
 
19,178 posts, read 19,642,039 times
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Without unions, the middle class in America would never have come into existence. And it is hardly a matter of mere coincidence that the decline of the middle class has lately gone on in tandem with the decline of unions...
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Old 01-15-2008, 05:04 PM
Status: "Serendipity as a lifestyle" (set 21 hours ago)
 
Location: On a hill near a river
14,369 posts, read 11,917,448 times
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To a large degree, the unions served their membership poorly by clinging to the model of the industrial age long after it had become obvious that capital would become instantaneously mobile, and move to cheaper labor markets as they arose. They enriched the old-school bitter-enders with impossibly lucrative deals like the UAW's notorious "job bank" and improverished the future by refusing to negotiate contracts that would keep them competitive in the increasingly international labor market.

In other words, the greed of the managerial class was matched by the laziness and instransigence of the union bosses, and the workers have reaped the result...
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Old 01-15-2008, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 23,887,359 times
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I might add that, in Nevada, the CCEA (Clark County Education Association) - the Teachers Union, is LOSING membership due to very poor representation of their members.

As for the NEA - they also are losing membership.
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Old 01-15-2008, 05:12 PM
LM1
 
Location: NEFL/Chi, IL
833 posts, read 64,092 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
To a large degree, the unions served their membership poorly by clinging to the model of the industrial age long after it had become obvious that capital would become instantaneously mobile, and move to cheaper labor markets as they arose. They enriched the old-school bitter-enders with impossibly lucrative deals like the UAW's notorious "job bank" and improverished the future by refusing to negotiate contracts that would keep them competitive in the increasingly international labor market.

In other words, the greed of the managerial class was matched by the laziness and instransigence of the union bosses, and the workers have reaped the result...
This is 100% the correct answer.
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Old 01-15-2008, 05:16 PM
 
7,404 posts, read 5,611,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
Multiple threads have been initiated the past few weeks concerning the high number of folks working in jobs which do not provide health care insurance, the elimination of many pension plans and the lack of adequate cost of living increases to allow employees keep pace with the cost of living.

A major change during the past 30 years has been the erosion of union influence and protection. This has been due to multiple reasons, such as the export of jobs, opening of free trade, currency changes, enhanced technology allowing remote access and automation/robotics.

My question is this, do you think that we were better off with strong unions and the influence they had in the workplace, or do you think we are better off with a less organized employer/employee relationship?
Here is a hint. which auto makers are thriving and where are they located. Michigan home of the big three has the worst economy in the country, also one of the most heavily unionized vs places like Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama & Texas right to work states where Toyota is thriving. I despise Unions and could share some very disgusting stories from these so called "Brotherhoods" for the working Man! They are part of whats wrong with America and definately not part of the solution! We will never fix the education system in this country until we are rid of the teachers union!
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Old 01-15-2008, 05:21 PM
 
645 posts, read 1,261,798 times
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The unions as they are today are not particurlarly effective to protect the rights of employees. However, I think employees have very few rights in the US, and I believe those rights should be expanded. I don't agree with employment at-will as it is today and other issues. Since unions are very small in the US, they don't have the national impact as in many other countries, so it would have to come from a federal/state level.
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Old 01-15-2008, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
13,450 posts, read 15,871,760 times
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Did the unions establish the baseline expectation of health insurance and pension benefits that many posters allude to when discussing the decline of the USA in multiple threads?
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Old 01-15-2008, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Minnysoda
5,060 posts, read 4,423,751 times
Reputation: 2281
Quote:
Originally Posted by silas777 View Post
Here is a hint. which auto makers are thriving and where are they located. Michigan home of the big three has the worst economy in the country, also one of the most heavily unionized vs places like Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama & Texas right to work states where Toyota is thriving. I despise Unions and could share some very disgusting stories from these so called "Brotherhoods" for the working Man! They are part of whats wrong with America and definately not part of the solution! We will never fix the education system in this country until we are rid of the teachers union!
HERE,HERE!!!!!Excellent post!!!!! Approx 5000dollars of the sale price of every vehical manufactered in this country go to pay RETIRED worker benefits the new age auto worker gets hosed! AS for the Teacher union Only people I know that don't have to perform well to get a raise GET ride of it I agree!!!!!!!!!!!
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