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In order to lie, you must know the truth. So here are a few non-disputable facts that made up the truth.
1- The Iraq WMD inspection regime was created by the UN, not by the US.
2- By UN dictates, the inspection team leaders CANNOT be Americans. Americans can be team members at all ranks, but not team leaders. The team leaders were Hans Blix (Swede), Rolf Ekeus (Swede), and Richard Butler (Australian).
3- The teams were assisted by international bodies composed of experts, technical and political, and who reported directly to the UN SecGen. For example, with UNMOVIC...
Note that there was only one American -- Robert Witajewski -- on that body. Also do note that there were Russians and Chinese as well. Certainly at least two countries that have no good wishes to US.
4- All team reports were sent to the UN Security Council and the SecGen. Not to US. This mean everyone saw the same set of data.
5- Mahdi Obeidi was Iraq's chief nuclear scientist, who wrote of his life in the book The Bomb In My Garden.
The 'bomb' was a pair of intact centrifuges and plans on how to use them. Saddam Hussein ordered Obeidi to hide these items in Obeidi's home, believing (correctly) that UN inspectors would never look for any WMD related program materials there and Obeidi literally buried those items in his garden. In other words, Iraq was well on the way to become a nuclear weapons state and Saddam Hussein had every intention of resuming the nuclear WMD program whenever possible. Obeidi's conscience compelled him to surrender everything to the Americans when the opportunity arose.
In order to lie, you must know the truth. So here are a few non-disputable facts that made up the truth.
1- The Iraq WMD inspection regime was created by the UN, not by the US.
2- By UN dictates, the inspection team leaders CANNOT be Americans. Americans can be team members at all ranks, but not team leaders. The team leaders were Hans Blix (Swede), Rolf Ekeus (Swede), and Richard Butler (Australian).
3- The teams were assisted by international bodies composed of experts, technical and political, and who reported directly to the UN SecGen. For example, with UNMOVIC...
Note that there was only one American -- Robert Witajewski -- on that body. Also do note that there were Russians and Chinese as well. Certainly at least two countries that have no good wishes to US.
4- All team reports were sent to the UN Security Council and the SecGen. Not to US. This mean everyone saw the same set of data.
5- Mahdi Obeidi was Iraq's chief nuclear scientist, who wrote of his life in the book The Bomb In My Garden.
The 'bomb' was a pair of intact centrifuges and plans on how to use them. Saddam Hussein ordered Obeidi to hide these items in Obeidi's home, believing (correctly) that UN inspectors would never look for any WMD related program materials there and Obeidi literally buried those items in his garden. In other words, Iraq was well on the way to become a nuclear weapons state and Saddam Hussein had every intention of resuming the nuclear WMD program whenever possible. Obeidi's conscience compelled him to surrender everything to the Americans when the opportunity arose.
So how did Bush 'lied' ? How could Bush 'lied' ?
So you are either trying to say it was the UN's fault the US invaded Iraq or that Bush didn't lie, he was just stupid. Neither is a good reason to invade a country.
I like how the torture apologist takes pains to point out that there was only one American on the inspection team as if that casts doubt on their findings or something. Ten years on and the they still can't bring themselves to admit that they were wrong to believe Republican scum. It's kind of sad, really.
No one has forgotten that Congress believed the lies Bush was telling them, doesn't change the fact that Bush and his administration lied to everyone.
They already believed the same lies Bill Clinton told them for eight years. Stop with this childish, pretentious act of yours, the members of the US Congress believed Saddam had WMDs during the entire eight years of president Clinton.
So you are either trying to say it was the UN's fault the US invaded Iraq or that Bush didn't lie, he was just stupid. Neither is a good reason to invade a country.
Why MUST it be Bush 'lied' or the UN's fault ? Why not it was Saddam Hussein's fault ?
If the UN shut the US completely out of the inspection regime, it would have made the UN grossly partisan, so the compromise was to deny US the leadership role in the inspection process. We agreed to that. But as far as the technical aspects of the inspection regime goes, there were nothing wrong with it.
Did you know that Saddam tried to have inspectors killed in the course of their duties ? Of course you did not know. Because you do not want to know.
Looky here...When you have not only the world's foremost military power breathing down your neck but also ostensibly the world's representative agent -- United Nations -- looking over your shoulders, it would behoove you to do whatever they want you to do. They did not go into your country to make you someone's colonial bi-atch, or take your oil, or even seduce your women. They want you to fess up whatever weapons program you had running.
So you are either trying to say it was the UN's fault the US invaded Iraq or that Bush didn't lie, he was just stupid. Neither is a good reason to invade a country.
Bush was just as stupid as Clinton and all the other leading Democrats who kept telling us over and over that Iraq had WMD's.
I've yet to see you ever ask if Clinton was stupid or a liar. Why is that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderic
Why MUST it be Bush 'lied' or the UN's fault ? Why not it was Saddam Hussein's fault ?
Since Saddam admitted that he wanted the world to believe he had WMD's in order to stave off his enemies, I'd say he played a large role in it.
I like how the torture apologist takes pains to point out that there was only one American on the inspection team as if that casts doubt on their findings or something. Ten years on and the they still can't bring themselves to admit that they were wrong to believe Republican scum. It's kind of sad, really.
No...It just mean there was no way for Bush to have 'lied' about WMD in Iraq. Maybe wrong, but no lies were given.
And I thought right wingers are supposed to be stupid.
No...It just mean there was no way for Bush to have 'lied' about WMD in Iraq. Maybe wrong, but no lies were given.
And I thought right wingers are supposed to be stupid.
They're not "supposed" to be, they just are.
You're wrong, there are all kinds of different ways to lie about WMD in Iraq. I remember when Rumsfeld said he knew where these weapons were. I remember when Cheney used information he gave to the New York Times as so-called independent confirmation of his claims regarding these weapons. I remember the Bush Administration describing Dr. Blix as 'deluded' in reaction to his findings that none of the Bush Administration's claims had merit.
Your use of the phrase 'weapons-related program activities' tells me what I need to know. I also remember the fearmongering going from 'weapons' to 'weapons programs' to 'weapons-related program activities' as the Bush administration became more and more desperate to pretend their conquest of Iraq was justified, you see.
They already believed the same lies Bill Clinton told them for eight years. Stop with this childish, pretentious act of yours, the members of the US Congress believed Saddam had WMDs during the entire eight years of president Clinton.
How many times did Clinton invade Iraq with ground troops?
Why MUST it be Bush 'lied' or the UN's fault ? Why not it was Saddam Hussein's fault ?
If the UN shut the US completely out of the inspection regime, it would have made the UN grossly partisan, so the compromise was to deny US the leadership role in the inspection process. We agreed to that. But as far as the technical aspects of the inspection regime goes, there were nothing wrong with it.
Did you know that Saddam tried to have inspectors killed in the course of their duties ? Of course you did not know. Because you do not want to know.
Looky here...When you have not only the world's foremost military power breathing down your neck but also ostensibly the world's representative agent -- United Nations -- looking over your shoulders, it would behoove you to do whatever they want you to do. They did not go into your country to make you someone's colonial bi-atch, or take your oil, or even seduce your women. They want you to fess up whatever weapons program you had running.
Oh, so it was Saddam's fault that Bush lied to the American public and invaded Iraq, nice one.
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