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First of all, I wish to thank you for taking the time to post a well thought out, intelligent reply.
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You cannot deny that the high drug crime and murder rate south of the border is caused by huge profits created by high American demand. AgreeI think you have already agreed with that. What myself and many others have been trying to get through your head is that the high demand is caused by the BLACK MARKET. Remove that demand, and the drug crimes south of the border will subside.
While this might happen over time it will take a number of years for such phenomenon in my opinion to occur.. if MJ was legal... because the regulations will always be something some segment of the population doesnt want and wont abide by
Granted. There are 77 years of a black market mindset that needs to be overcome. But you nailed it: Follow the money. The key is to have the legal stuff (medical or retail) priced and taxed at the proper point. That point is where the profit for black market suppliers and dealers is too low to make it worth their time and/or the risk of arrest.
Not to mention that we are probably still at least few years away from the feds stubbornly legalizing it.
The segment of the population that "doesn't want and won't abide" will be a only small fraction of what it is now. It will be pretty much a non-issue, because the black market demand will dwindle over time, eventually reaching about the same level of demand as black market alcohol is now (nearly none).
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So, let's do the logical thing and regulate cannabis the same way we do alcohol.
Potentially that might be a roadmap...but then alcohol does not immediately intoxicate you.. marijuana does.. and that creates a subset of issues.... do you really think your fellow marijuana cowboys will go along... or should we like alcohol allow some growing for personal use.. and if so.. how much and under what conditions?
Oh, so close but yet so far. Thank you for admitting that government regulation might be a roadmap to replace prohibition! That is wonderful progress!
But then you fall on your face when you start making blanket statements like "alcohol does not immediately intoxicate you.. marijuana does..". Really, and I am saying this in all sincerity, that statement is not true in most cases. It depends on many factors, like the strain involved, the person involved, the tolerance of the individual involved, etc.
Even in the few cases that you actually could call the effect "intoxicating", that type of intoxication is very much preferable to the type of intoxication alcohol causes. I believe in the past you have agreed that alcohol is worse than cannabis.
Of course personal cultivation should be allowed! How could you possibly prevent it? Why would you want to? If reasonable limits are placed, like the 12 plant limit that you are already familiar with, along with reasonable pricing for the legal stuff (for those that don't want to grow their own), why do you think there would be a niche for "marijuana cowboys" to fill? So many of the problems you are now seeing will go away when black market demand goes away.
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while I don't condemn MJ folks as a whole (kind of feels like what it means to be a policeman of late and be condemned as a murderer and violator of rights and gross harasser and abuser of others.. something MJ proponents always seem only too happy to spout off about)..for I would never know someone like you (if a tree falls in the forest is it heard)...
Wow! Now there is some MAJOR progress! This is the first time I have ever heard you say anything other than ALL "mj folks" are worthless and not to be trusted! Thank you!
I think maybe I can extend that further -- Since you admit there is a subset of cannabis users like myself that you would never know about, does that mean that you now separate cannabis from the other illegal drugs like heroin, meth, and the others? If so, then that is a MAJOR, MAJOR breakthrough!
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What laws would you be in favor of if MJ became legal?
Grow laws
Use laws
Abuse laws
No laws
Frankly, Colorado's model is working pretty well, considering it is charting new territory. It isn't perfect, for example the cost/tax ratio is too high, making black market sources still too attractive from a price point of view.
But it is highly controlled, with every single plant grown given a bar code and tracked from seedling to harvest. There is very little room for cartels to hone in on except the dwindling black market.
Unless you don't mean what you wrote, I feel like we've some progress on finding some middle ground! Would you agree?
You're not going to change human nature. People have and will always continue to experiment with drugs because that's what people do when they are young. No amount of "war on drugs" TV propaganda will change that.
Throwing people in prison and ruining their lives for possession is not the answer. Marijuana is no more or less harmful than alcohol. Yes, it does have the same potential for abuse as alcohol, food, or any other vise or habit. Might as well legalize and grow it here in the US. Any "cartels" try to pop up and get violent, they are met with military level force. No violence will be tolerated.
You grow it on mass levels and make it affordable enough even with taxes to out-compete with the illegal stuff.. and commerce is born.
First of all, I wish to thank you for taking the time to post a well thought out, intelligent reply.
Granted. There are 77 years of a black market mindset that needs to be overcome. But you nailed it: Follow the money. The key is to have the legal stuff (medical or retail) priced and taxed at the proper point. That point is where the profit for black market suppliers and dealers is too low to make it worth their time and/or the risk of arrest.
Not to mention that we are probably still at least few years away from the feds stubbornly legalizing it.
Unless you don't mean what you wrote, I feel like we've some progress on finding some middle ground! Would you agree?
Progress.... hmmm... polite discourse absolutely... taking the thread from are people in south america being slaughtered from our thirst for marijuana ... to the effect of marijuana legalization upon society. The premise of the CNN article is...from what I can tell.. correct ... and those proponents here that deny their drug use ISNT fueling violence in the world.. like many other drugs.. are delusional and out of touch with reality. Dealing with a maybe tomorrow does not change what is happening today
As we dig down perhaps more agreement... and more clarification
Alcohol is a poison... I don't use it..ever.. it kills brain cells as soon as it touches your lips. It is a destructive drug. Marijuana appears on the surface to be the "better" of the two poison drugs at intoxication and deleterious effects upon the body.... but.. and there is a but careful legitimate large scale studying needs to be financed and done ... I as a taxpayer am not interested in financing it one iota. Large scale research may... and in my opinion will... find marijuana to have limited medical benefit for a very small segment of the population and current pharma addresses this to a large extent.. if it is to be a drug then let's fda it as one.. get it out of GBE Queen of dragons dispensary and into CVS pharmacy... if I need to explain why I will.. let common sense rule.
As to cowboy behavior... and where I live more the norm than the unusual... the word on the street... thank you social media for great Intel... is funk da system ..overwhelm them... that potentially will take years if ever.. somewhat like alcohol to control . You believe you should be able to grow it...even when and if legalized... right now some entrepreneur is plotting how stop you in any manner whatsoever... the money will win
We can't control our own towns with our police ... we will never control cartels
As a policeman I also think you might not realize while I'm hardcore about drugs its been years since I wrote a duckett for 11357 a h&s simple possession ... my focus is and has been the cowboys going back twenty years... and will this season... if I make it there
Now.. let's come down to the social costs of legalization... you abide by the law.. the system based upon your statements will never see you or care..you'll live your life ..abet with stolen moments high... as you see fit.. who cares.. not me that's for sure
The social costs and implications..huge.. holding out Colorado as the successful model ..well..its not.. the majority of the counties opted out.. people don't want to deal with stoners and stoner behavior.. damage to their counties.. physical and spiritual..
Shouldn't this be their right?
My questions were never answered .. global ..all proponents..
What would you give up to have marijuana unfettered in your life ..
Food
Welfare
Job opportunities
Today someone .. if proponents agree the CNN article was true.. today someone will be murdered... kidnapped.. have their children raped.. because of marijuana
I spent 45 quality minutes this morning pedaling a recumbsnt bike replying to you... something 90 percent of the current "patients" could use for better health benefits than a burning stick.... but ull save that concept for more discourse as we delve deeper into the true costs of intoxicants in our world
Last edited by notmeofficer; 04-13-2015 at 06:21 AM..
Progress.... hmmm... polite discourse absolutely... taking the thread from are people in south america being slaughtered from our thirst for marijuana ... to the effect of marijuana legalization upon society. The premise of the CNN article is...from what I can tell.. correct ... and those proponents here that deny their drug use ISNT fueling violence in the world.. like many other drugs.. are delusional and out of touch with reality. Dealing with a maybe tomorrow does not change what is happening today
As we dig down perhaps more agreement... and more clarification
Alcohol is a poison... I don't use it..ever.. it kills brain cells as soon as it touches your lips. It is a destructive drug. Marijuana appears on the surface to be the "better" of the two poison drugs at intoxication and deleterious effects upon the body.... but.. and there is a but careful legitimate large scale studying needs to be financed and done ... I as a taxpayer am not interested in financing it one iota. Large scale research may... and in my opinion will... find marijuana to have limited medical benefit for a very small segment of the population and current pharma addresses this to a large extent.. if it is to be a drug then let's fda it as one.. get it out of GBE Queen of dragons dispensary and into CVS pharmacy... if I need to explain why I will.. let common sense rule.
As to cowboy behavior... and where I live more the norm than the unusual... the word on the street... thank you social media for great Intel... is funk da system ..overwhelm them... that potentially will take years if ever.. somewhat like alcohol to control . You believe you should be able to grow it...even when and if legalized... right now some entrepreneur is plotting how stop you in any manner whatsoever... the money will win
We can't control our own towns with our police ... we will never control cartels
As a policeman I also think you might not realize while I'm hardcore about drugs its been years since I wrote a duckett for 11357 a h&s simple possession ... my focus is and has been the cowboys going back twenty years... and will this season... if I make it there
Now.. let's come down to the social costs of legalization... you abide by the law.. the system based upon your statements will never see you or care..you'll live your life ..abet with stolen moments high... as you see fit.. who cares.. not me that's for sure
The social costs and implications..huge.. holding out Colorado as the successful model ..well..its not.. the majority of the counties opted out.. people don't want to deal with stoners and stoner behavior.. damage to their counties.. physical and spiritual..
Shouldn't this be their right?
My questions were never answered .. global ..all proponents..
What would you give up to have marijuana unfettered in your life ..
Food
Welfare
Job opportunities
Today someone .. if proponents agree the CNN article was true.. today someone will be murdered... kidnapped.. have their children raped.. because of marijuana
I spent 45 quality minutes this morning pedaling a recumbsnt bike replying to you... something 90 percent of the current "patients" could use for better health benefits than a burning stick.... but ull save that concept for more discourse as we delve deeper into the true costs of intoxicants in our world
People are not being slaughtered because of our thirst for marijuana. That just recently started. Stop with the hyperbole.
Last I checked marijuana grows pretty well right here in the United States.
Today someone .. if proponents agree the CNN article was true.. today someone will be murdered... kidnapped.. have their children raped.. because of marijuana
My but you do go on. And on. And on.
One More Time:
Setting aside the absurdity of your extreme view and examples...
to the degree that ANYTHING undesirable ever happens w/r/t the marijuana trade...
that is rooted in, if not solely because of, the illegality and black market prices.
Go out there and do something constructive: Ticket some left lane hogs.
One More Time:
Setting aside the absurdity of your extreme view and examples...
to the degree that ANYTHING undesirable ever happens w/r/t the marijuana trade...
that is rooted in, if not solely because of, the illegality and black market prices.
Go out there and do something constructive: Ticket some left lane hogs.
This^^^
I've seen hundreds of harmless folks beaten by cops, but I don't think I've seen a cop beaten as badly as nmo, in every post he/she starts!
Wow.. I don't feel bloodied.. and I haven't beat anyone lately.. regardless of the ignorant comments
The residents of the apartment building that were made homeless today from the honey oil explosion last night sure are....
Again.. the questions?
What would you give up for unfettered marijuana use?
Food?
Welfare?
Job opportunities?
Can they be any simpler?
They don't make sense, why does anyone have to give anything up? You're really grasping at straws now and going off the rails, none of it makes any sense.
What would you give up for unfettered marijuana use?
Sunflower seeds, letter openers, and the dual-zone aspect of my car's climate control.
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