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and comparing the FDA process of the 1950s is like looking at plane crashes. .I can't believe you fly in planes, in the 50s the rate of death was 1 per. . .
You do know that science evolves and medical procedures learn from mistakes, and the next one is better.
Because serotonin regulation and ECT and for so-called emotional disease, and "junk DNA," and alcoholism genes, and Gardasil user hospitalizations, and chicken pox vax febrile-convulsion victims indicate your decades are the more enlightened ones.
and comparing the FDA process of the 1950s is like looking at plane crashes. .I can't believe you fly in planes, in the 50s the rate of death was 1 per. . .
You do know that science evolves and medical procedures learn from mistakes, and the next one is better.
Are you saying that scientists and researchers can make mistakes? Say it aint so, Chris. I thought that the "science was settled".
Because serotonin regulation and ECT and for so-called emotional disease
Okay gibberish
Quote:
Originally Posted by mm4
, and "junk DNA," and alcoholism genes,
source? what the heck are you talking about. I mean seriously. . . we talking about the Austin study? Is Alcoholism Genetic? Scientists Discover Link to a Network of Genes In the Brain that found a link between some persons and a genetic suspebility to alcholisim? Did this shatter some pre-convinced notion of you patting yourself on the back (hey i'm not a drunk, and its all due to me being a good person). And now they find a linked to a gene that allows people to get addicted easier and your offended?
Dude - being offended about links doesn't mean the science is bad. If you have a different hypothesis or you think the study is flawed by all means. But saying its flawed because it puts up a link you didn't like isn't science. its anti-science.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mm4
and Gardasil user hospitalizations,
yeah. Well science says its safe. Large study of 200k patients shows your biggest risk is fainting. .and maybe a site infection (from the jab). Seriously. Oh i know, you found the one person who says (but hasn't proven) they got sick. Dude. Science doesn't work that way.
Sure there can be a black swan, the magic girl allergic to HPV vaccination. That doesn't define the science.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mm4
and chicken pox vax febrile-convulsion victims indicate your decades are the more enlightened ones.
okay, 1 in 25 infants have this ferbile seizure (regardless of vaccination) and it has no lasting effect. Though I did see 1 in 1,284 gets a zeisure trigger by vacination.
OMG
the horror
not,
Last edited by ChrisFromChicago; 04-14-2015 at 01:40 PM..
and comparing the FDA process of the 1950s is like looking at plane crashes. .I can't believe you fly in planes, in the 50s the rate of death was 1 per. . .
You do know that science evolves and medical procedures learn from mistakes, and the next one is better.
With a line of injuries and bodies from Science's mistakes.
I AM of that generation. My children are your age. I grew up in the 50s in NYC around MILLIONS of people before all these vaccinations. First, you simply cannot put measles, mumps, etc., in the same category as polio. You lose all credibility by doing that. Kids were not dying in the streets from measles. HOSPITALS were not filed to capacity. Kids did not even GO to a doctor! It was treated the same as a COLD. No big deal. Kids just stayed home from school. There were measles and chicken pox parties, which DOCTORS recommended, so kids could catch these COMMON illnesses as young as possible and never get them again. End of story. Once you have had measles, mumps, etc., you have LIFETIME immunity. You cannot get it again. You won't need BOOSTERS.
I used to go visit my friends when they were home sick since I had all those childhood diseases before the age of 2. They were not DEATHLY sick because they were healthy to BEGIN with. None of my classmates were hospitalized with any of those diseases. Again, don't put polio in the same category as these others.
The younger generation has been scared to death by medicine and the media of getting sick, FROM ANYTHING. Today we have ER's packed with people who think they might have the FLU and think they are going to die from THAT.
Very sad. The public has been totally brainwashed today into thinking they will never survive without doctors, a lot of unnecessary meds, and vaccines.
You're right. The thing is, as the anti-vaxers like to tell us, 95% of polio patients have NO symptoms. Of the other 5%, most have what is called "abortive polio". They basically have flu-like symptoms. A few get a more severe form of the disease called non-paralytic polio, and anywhere from 0.1% to 2% of total cases get paralysis. The paralysis is not always permanent, either. Also, not every child got polio. At the height of the polio epidemics in the US, there were about 50,000 cases. Polio
OTOH, there are few asymptomatic cases of measles in non-immune people. In the pre-vaccine era, there were 400,000 or more known cases every year. Actual cases were likely much higher: Alexander Langmuir estimated that about 4 million measles cases occurred in each year shortly before vaccine introduction (Langmuir AD. Medical importance of measles. Am J Dis Child 1962;103:54-56). Graph of U.S. Measles Cases — History of Vaccines
Langmuir also made a comparison between measles and polio.
30% of measles patients have complications. As many as 1 in 20 get pneumonia, and pneumonia is the most common cause of measles death. Measles | Complications | CDC
So no, the two diseases aren't comparable. Measles is definitely the more severe disease. Yes, measles was treated like a cold; there is no treatment. TLC until the patient gets better, period. I do not know of any doctor recommending either measles or chickenpox parties. I grew up in that era as did my spouse. In as diverse locations as suburban Pittsburgh and in-city Omaha, neither of us ever attended, or even heard of such parties. We don't know anyone else who attended one or hosted one. I think they're "urban legends" which a lot of new-agey types have picked up on and actually are doing, NOW. It is rare to get measles, mumps or rubella a second time; it's less rare to get a second case of chickenpox. (FWIW)
Scroll down to bottom rates for Dtap. So if all children were vaccinated, we would eliminate whooping cough? Children never come into contact with adults who are not up to date on that booster? Childhood vaccination alone is going to achieve Herd Immunity?
If all children are vaccinated, they will grow up to be adults who WILL get any and all vaccinations, and boosters, government tells them too?
Good luck with that one. Would be interesting too see how many just on this site are doing that one. Get your vaccinations or lose your job, health insurance, Social Security check, move about freely in society? There are far more adult Americans who would not want that forced on themselves in the name of "good of society".
Medical Tyranny by Government.
Of course we'd never totally eliminate pertussis! Just what you wanted to hear, right? But we would vastly decrease the number of cases if everyone were completely immunized.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48
As with everything else, if they were not healthy to BEGIN with those diseases would have caused other complications. It did not for those who were healthy.
I was 6 months old, an INFANT, when I had measles. Today would have been a reason for immediate hospitalization.
MILLIONS of us survived these diseases with no horrifying complications. They do not want to tell you that. Yet today they talk about thousands dying of the damned FLU. This is just an advertising campaign to sell a product. FEAR sells.
Sorry, this Senior isn't BUYING any of there stuff (Tdap,tentanus, pnemonia, shingles, flu shots) because I WAS around back in those days.
BTW, do you avoid people in the supermarket? How do you know that the cashier ringing up your groceries been vaccinated for everything the CDC says to. Do you really believe that all adults are fully vaccinated? Read that CDC chart.
I know threads get contentious, but I want to wake up people to the fact that it isn't just little children not getting vaccinated. Adults (without little children) aren't either.
450-500 kids DIED every year due to measles in the pre-vaccine era, healthy kids as well as the unhealthy.
It's apparent from your comment above that you don't know about the history of scientist coined (surviving from the 1960s in fact), peer reviewed, so-called "junk ['non-coding']-DNA."
It was only recently discovered that, even among other attributes of the molecule, this so called "non-coding" "junk" comprises neatly configured coding patterns that potentially can do protein work when the molecule is folded.
If the measles are harmless, why do I have one less uncle than I should and my grandparents one less child? Why is my neighbor deaf? Why does my uncle have brain damage that leaves him unable to work and on the public's dime for life?
If the measles are harmless, why does my oncologist tell me to avoid families who do not believe in vaccinations because my life is at stake?
I have three fewer great uncles (I think they were all boys) who died in a period of three weeks of diphtheria during a diphtheria epidemic, plus one less great aunt/uncle who was stillborn during that same epidemic. Imagine that, losing three kids in three weeks! Diphtheria causes your body to form a psuedo-membrane obstructing the throat. My grandmother was a little girl during this epidemic and she said one of her brothers was so thirsty, he tried to drink out of a bowl like a dog. He likely died of dehydration. Diphtheria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Don't open if you're squeamish)
[quote=FallsAngel;39219215]You're right. The thing is, as the anti-vaxers like to tell us, 95% of polio patients have NO symptoms. Of the other 5%, most have what is called "abortive polio". They basically have flu-like symptoms. A few get a more severe form of the disease called non-paralytic polio, and anywhere from 0.1% to 2% of total cases get paralysis. The paralysis is not always permanent, either. Also, not every child got polio. At the height of the polio epidemics in the US, there were about 50,000 cases. Polio
OTOH, there are few asymptomatic cases of measles in non-immune people. In the pre-vaccine era, there were 400,000 or more known cases every year. Actual cases were likely much higher: Alexander Langmuir estimated that about 4 million measles cases occurred in each year shortly before vaccine introduction (Langmuir AD. Medical importance of measles. Am J Dis Child 1962;103:54-56). Graph of U.S. Measles Cases — History of Vaccines
Langmuir also made a comparison between measles and polio.
30% of measles patients have complications. As many as 1 in 20 get pneumonia, and pneumonia is the most common cause of measles death. Measles | Complications | CDC
So no, the two diseases aren't comparable. Measles is definitely the more severe disease. Yes, measles was treated like a cold; there is no treatment. TLC until the patient gets better, period. I do not know of any doctor recommending either measles or chickenpox parties. I grew up in that era as did my spouse. In as diverse locations as suburban Pittsburgh and in-city Omaha, neither of us ever attended, or even heard of such parties. We don't know anyone else who attended one or hosted one. I think they're "urban legends" which a lot of new-agey types have picked up on and actually are doing, NOW. It is rare to get measles, mumps or rubella a second time; it's less rare to get a second case of chickenpox. (FWIW)
Of course we'd never totally eliminate pertussis! Just what you wanted to hear, right? But we would vastly decrease the number of cases if everyone were completely immunized.
450-500 kids DIED every year due to measles in the pre-vaccine era, healthy kids as well as the unhealthy.[/QUOTou
MILLIONS of kids got measles every single year. 400/500 deaths? Do the percentage. Nothing in comparison to what they talk about today with even FLU deaths!!!! Get your FLU SHOT or you will die! But then today even ONE death from anything is one too many by medicine. If medicine could force even chemo on an adult who refuse, they WOULD. GODS!
Chicken pox? I can go back to the 90s (ancient history?) with my own kids on that. That vaccine came out in 1995, BUT Pediatricians in well populated areas KNEW about the vaccine before then. My older daughter was born in 1979. By age 11 in 1990 she still had not gotten chicken pox. Her pediatrician said to me that there was a vaccine in the works (remember 1990) but he would not give it to any of his patients. He said let her go to a chicken pox party (in the 90s?????) and catch it before she got older. He also said to let her younger sister born in 1984 catch it from her. She did. 30 years later that doctor would have had his license revoked. Oh, no, they, besides all of us old people, are now DOOMED to the 1 in 3 chance of getting of getting Shingles. Of course, there is a vaccination now for that too! No thank you for me.
If you go on the CDC site they recommend that Varcilla vax for anymore born after 1980. THINK about that. Someone born in 1980 would have been 15 years old by the time that was put on the market. They didn't get chicken pox by the time they were teenagers? So they think adults today born after that year need that vaccination???? PROVE you had it, or roll up your sleeve anyway??? Can never be too safe? OF COURSE!!!! lol
Blanket statements. One size fits ALL.
Edit: Pediatricians started pushing that Hep. B vax on children also back in the 90s. I heard that one all the time. Your children (preteen and teen) need that vaccination. Ignored it. The straw that broke the camel's back then was when he started nagging ME about getting it too. Dropped that pediatrician like a hot coal and took my kids to an adult family practice instead. Today they demand NEWBORNS before they leave the hospital to get that Hep. B. SICK. By that I mean MEDICINE who think that.
BTW, who ever heard of JENNY MCCARTHY in the 90s?????? WHO do you blame for "anti-vax" parents in the 90s?
Last edited by Jo48; 04-14-2015 at 03:14 PM..
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Say it aint so, Chris. I thought that the "science was settled".
