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Old 04-13-2015, 07:28 PM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,193,725 times
Reputation: 18824

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDXNative2Houston View Post
From a pure strategic perspective, Israel does nothing for the U.S., "0". In fact they're a large negative.

However they have quite possibly the most organized and vicious special interest lobby's in the nation and the world. Until that changes, every President will need to bear the skull cap and bow to the Wall.
This opinion will get you in hot water in most circles, and yet, the validity of it is without question. You'll just get called a Jew Hater and have your opinions immediately dismissed.

Ask Michael Scheuer.

The United States needs Israel for absolutely NOTHING. They add nothing in the way of finance, culture, or gravitas. There's nothing we get from them that we can't get elsewhere or come up with ourselves.

Even the Intel they give us is so biased that its worthless.
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Old 04-13-2015, 07:29 PM
 
1,666 posts, read 1,017,827 times
Reputation: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Been saying this for years...

The Ottomans, British and French screwed up the Middle East, and we grabbed that soup sandwich like a damn fool during the Cold War and the aforementioned trio has been laughing their asses off at us ever since.

And of course like with every thing else, we just doubled down on European stupidity and managed to incur the wrath of the Muslim world ever since. We were the most popular western nation in the Arab World beforehand, now we're the least popular.
I agree. Forcibly imposing the secular nation-state model, which was a great answer and system for the insanity that was medieval Europe, was a terrible idea for the Middle East region.
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Old 04-13-2015, 07:31 PM
 
9,763 posts, read 10,526,388 times
Reputation: 2052
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
This opinion will get you in hot water in most circles, and yet, the validity of it is without question. You'll just get called a Jew Hater and have your opinions immediately dismissed.

Ask Michael Scheuer.

The United States needs Israel for absolutely NOTHING. They add nothing in the way of finance, culture, or gravitas. There's nothing we get from them that we can't get elsewhere or come up with ourselves.

Even the Intel they give us is so biased that its worthless.
But it's the Holy Land.
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Old 04-13-2015, 07:35 PM
 
1,666 posts, read 1,017,827 times
Reputation: 846
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
This opinion will get you in hot water in most circles, and yet, the validity of it is without question. You'll just get called a Jew Hater and have your opinions immediately dismissed.

Ask Michael Scheuer.

The United States needs Israel for absolutely NOTHING. They add nothing in the way of finance, culture, or gravitas. There's nothing we get from them that we can't get elsewhere or come up with ourselves.

Even the Intel they give us is so biased that its worthless.
Yes, as the politicians that Scheurer attempted to appeal to with reason and logic, had their political lives on the line. If such a politician were to agree with Scheuer and had large amounts of political capital, I'm very sure that his actual life would be on the line as well. The Israelis and their lobby have shown that they will resort to terrorism and assassinations if their backs are against the wall.
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Old 04-13-2015, 07:36 PM
 
595 posts, read 368,576 times
Reputation: 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
This opinion will get you in hot water in most circles, and yet, the validity of it is without question. You'll just get called a Jew Hater and have your opinions immediately dismissed.

Ask Michael Scheuer.

The United States needs Israel for absolutely NOTHING. They add nothing in the way of finance, culture, or gravitas. There's nothing we get from them that we can't get elsewhere or come up with ourselves.

Even the Intel they give us is so biased that its worthless.
Here are some links to Michael Scheuer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHl1JnQoIWQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHwp7uwK6bE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQR1d1ao_IM
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Old 04-13-2015, 08:01 PM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,193,725 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by lorrysda View Post
Actually, that was one of the few mistakes President Reagan made. Right then he should have ordered a massive attack on those terrorists and we probably would not have had another 20 terrorists attacks on our citizens ending with 9/11. President Bush stepped in then and had the terrorists on the run and BO came in and screwed that up!
Reagan was spot on by leaving those folks to their own devices.
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Old 04-13-2015, 08:09 PM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,193,725 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
But it's the Holy Land.
Lol...Palestine is about as holy as Disneyland.

A bunch of livestock herders that were barely literate enough to write anything gave the world a bunch of books that we won't reject as a bunch of nonsense thousands of years later when we should know better.

It'll be that way until mankind can get over their fear of death.
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Old 04-13-2015, 08:13 PM
 
7,578 posts, read 5,325,444 times
Reputation: 9447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grsz11 View Post
Like children with a ****ing Crayon. The Middle East is a European problem. So is Africa. They kinda ****ed up Asia too. Let them fix it.
I couldn't agree more, particularly the issue of Israel and the Palestinians and absent oil it would have been. But then again absent oil, the British nor the French would have ever given two grains of sand. If you ever get a chance, have the time or are inclined to, read Scott Anderson's "Lawrence In Arabia,: War, Deceit, Imperial Folly and the Making of the Modern Middle East"
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Old 04-13-2015, 08:14 PM
 
34,278 posts, read 19,368,360 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
It'll be that way until mankind can get over their fear of death.
Working on it.
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Old 04-13-2015, 08:23 PM
 
56,988 posts, read 35,193,725 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWiseWino View Post
I couldn't agree more, particularly the issue of Israel and the Palestinians and absent oil it would have been. But then again absent oil, the British nor the French would have ever given two grains of sand. If you ever get a chance, have the time or are inclined to, read Scott Anderson's "Lawrence In Arabia,: War, Deceit, Imperial Folly and the Making of the Modern Middle East"
I've been wanting to read that book for a while. I'll get to it eventually.

I've just finished a few brilliant books on the topic: Crossing the Mandelbaum Gate, The Good Spy: Life of Robert Ames, Blowback, Imperial Hubris, Fiasco, Marching Toward Hell, and Talking to Terrorists.

A few more that don't come to me right now.
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