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Old 04-21-2015, 12:29 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
12,755 posts, read 9,613,410 times
Reputation: 13164

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Quote:
Originally Posted by J24 View Post
Discriminate against women?? I have never and I doubt many (if any) of you have ever met someone like was described in this story that refuses to touch women outside of his family for religious reasons. Sounds like this whole article is ONLY directed to very Orthodox Jews.


Great question. How many times has that happened to anyone... ever?

The same thing happened to me at work. We got a new employee and he was being introduced around the office.

I said hello and held out my hand to shake his and he visibly recoiled. Later, someone told me he was Muslim and the men don't shake hands with women or touch them. That was around 20 years ago.
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Old 04-21-2015, 12:40 PM
 
3,570 posts, read 2,508,013 times
Reputation: 2290
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDusty View Post
Since the author does't mention living in Saudi Arabia, she probably hasn't experienced too much discrimination from Muslims.

Orthodox Jews are not my friends. Jews, as a whole, are probably my favorite religious group next to Buddhists. Their mostly secular and seem to favor reason over propaganda. Even Israel is pretty cool; despite having a religious symbol on their flag, their a more secular democracy that we are.

But people do use their religion to justify the mistreatment of women quite a bit. The Bible says woman are not to rule over man, and I imagine the Koran has an even darker version of that. Both books also condone slavery, yet we've done away with that. As time progresses, certain things that we used to think were literally true in the Bible are no longer valid due to their historical context. Look at modern science. While 30% of Americans not believing evolution is scary, it also means 70% do believe in evolution. Since about 70% of Americans do identify as Christian, this means there is overlap, which is good. We've banned slavery despite religions ok to own other people, we've accepted modern science; why are women often pushed to the sidelines in religious communities?
I'm not sure, in 2015, that I would call Israel a secular democracy.

People use religious and non-religious rhetoric in an attempt to justify mistreating women. I think you are mistaken to say that "the Koran has an even darker version of [woman are not to rule over man]" than the Bible. At 1500+ years old, the Koran, like the Bible, is not a contemporary guide for the role of women in religious society. By the by, there is a passage in the Koran that mirrors that Biblical passage:

"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all)."

As a decentralized religion, like the protestant sects of Christianity, Islam has a wide array of interpretations of this and other passages concerning women. These interpretations range from patriarchal to anti-patriarchal (e.g., Tunisia's law requiring at least 50% of a political party's Parliament candidates to be women--not a religious interpretation, but certainly a law that the 98% Muslim country does not consider inconsistent with theology).

Quote:
Originally Posted by daylux View Post
The title was misleading. She should have clarified the article was going to be about Orthodox Jews.

You stated 70% of the country identify as Christians. What discrimination do women face in this country?
How about termination for pregnancy, unequal pay, gender bias, sexual assault, harassment? Inability to be ordained as faith leaders (certain sects of Christianity), objectification, and domestic violence?

Last edited by TheCityTheBridge; 04-21-2015 at 12:50 PM..
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Old 04-21-2015, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Corona del Mar, CA - Coronado, CA
4,477 posts, read 3,277,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
No, but women are CLEARLY second class citizens in all Mosaic based religions...Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
You forgot about women in the African American Community being second class citizens. Men use them and then move on, never marrying them. They get abused at higher rates, raped at higher rates and murdered at higher rates by African American men.
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Old 04-21-2015, 09:26 PM
 
Location: NJ/NY
18,423 posts, read 15,165,447 times
Reputation: 14288
In the past, everyone discriminated against woman, so it makes sense that anyone who lives in the past will continue the practice. The particular religion is inconsequential.
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Old 04-22-2015, 08:39 AM
 
Location: The Ranch in Olam Haba
23,709 posts, read 30,640,616 times
Reputation: 9985
Quote:
Originally Posted by daylux View Post
The title was misleading. She should have clarified the article was going to be about Orthodox Jews.

...
You're right the title and initial paragraph are misleading. She should have clarified the article was going to be about Ultra Orthodox Jews.

What other group in the US blatantly post signs in their neighborhoods a list of rules that women must follow in the neighborhoods they live in? What other group in the US has a Modesty Police that roams their neighborhood? What other group in the US forces women to sit in the back of the bus? etc....

Take a look at this website and try to figure out why the Ultra Orthodox community calls this a Heretic website.

FailedMessiah.com
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Old 04-22-2015, 08:43 AM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,298 posts, read 54,154,649 times
Reputation: 40623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myghost View Post
I was raised in a Jewish household (am a non-practicing Jew), but the Orthodox have a lot of crazy rules, and are not too far removed from what we call "extreme Islam" in this country. I don't condone these practices under any religion, but find it funny that people get all frothed about "the Islam", but have no problems with the Orthodox Jews, or the Pentecostals, or the many other groups that do the same.

I always revert back to "forget the labels, and pay attention to the actions".
I've gotta 'spread some around' before I can rep you but very well said!
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Old 04-22-2015, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,557,288 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myghost View Post

I always revert back to "forget the labels, and pay attention to the actions".
Words to live by.
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Old 04-22-2015, 08:50 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,421 posts, read 20,233,866 times
Reputation: 8958
Quote:
Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie View Post
While gays rightfully complain about how religion unjustly discriminates against them, don't forget women also suffer from discrimination from the same source.

Why is it okay to discriminate against women for religious reasons? - The Washington Post
In Muslim culture, yes.
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Old 04-22-2015, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,809 posts, read 26,373,680 times
Reputation: 25700
What exactly happened to celebrating diversity and respecting different cultures? The author of the OP's link seems like a bigot.
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Old 04-22-2015, 09:23 AM
 
14,293 posts, read 9,649,593 times
Reputation: 4254
Quote:
Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie View Post
While gays rightfully complain about how religion unjustly discriminates against them, don't forget women also suffer from discrimination from the same source.

Why is it okay to discriminate against women for religious reasons? - The Washington Post
Religion "unjustly discriminates against" gays? Do you know how flagrantly ignorant that comment of yours is?
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