Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-30-2015, 04:34 PM
 
3,072 posts, read 5,209,262 times
Reputation: 6578

Advertisements

You have a very ignorant view of China. No creativity, are you kidding me? Please don't tell me you think the Chinese are farmed in cram schools as education.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-30-2015, 04:41 PM
 
3,463 posts, read 5,629,613 times
Reputation: 7218
American pols use "free Market" and "Capitalism" to make their love and adoration of China politically palpable for 'merkans.
China has already attained what they are striving for. Corruption that doesn't need to be hidden. No environmental controls.
Censorship. Open racism . . . Its a blueprint for the USA as current dems and repubs see it. With Right to Work and other anti-labor intitiatives, they are on their way to making FOXCONN type conditions--complete with suicide contracts-- the standard for all US labor.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-30-2015, 05:48 PM
 
2,407 posts, read 1,493,693 times
Reputation: 1453
Quote:
Originally Posted by aliss2 View Post
You have a very ignorant view of China. No creativity, are you kidding me? Please don't tell me you think the Chinese are farmed in cram schools as education.
Really? On what basis do you give your opinion? I lived and worked in China. My wife is Chinese.

Do you know about communism? Have you heard of Chairman Mao? Did you know he was responsible for the killing of many teachers and destruction of wisdom literature and educational institutions when he came to power? He feared creative knowledge, because he couldn't control people that way.

I live and work around Chinese every day. If I began to tell you about how their society worked, you would be saddened and disgusted. Example: it is okay to openly discriminate against homosexuality and different races, but mostly blacks. It is quite normally accepted there. I heard it all the time. "...at least she didn't marry a black man".

Have you been to Beijing? It's supposed to be their "capital" city. Did you know that disabled people are considered outcasts, and not even in this huge city do they have accessibility for wheelchairs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-30-2015, 06:50 PM
 
3,072 posts, read 5,209,262 times
Reputation: 6578
Quote:
Originally Posted by dog8food View Post


Really? On what basis do you give your opinion? I lived and worked in China. My wife is Chinese.

Do you know about communism? Have you heard of Chairman Mao? Did you know he was responsible for the killing of many teachers and destruction of wisdom literature and educational institutions when he came to power? He feared creative knowledge, because he couldn't control people that way.

I live and work around Chinese every day. If I began to tell you about how their society worked, you would be saddened and disgusted. Example: it is okay to openly discriminate against homosexuality and different races, but mostly blacks. It is quite normally accepted there. I heard it all the time. "...at least she didn't marry a black man".

Have you been to Beijing? It's supposed to be their "capital" city. Did you know that disabled people are considered outcasts, and not even in this huge city do they have accessibility for wheelchairs.
I'm an ESL instructor and I spend nearly every other night discussing Chinese culture with Chinese people. I also know Mandarin.

Are you aware it is no longer 1976?? Look, between this and your other thread about being a wellness coach, it is pretty clear you can't seem to see the world from your American skewed viewpoint. Surely, if your wife is Chinese, she has explained such things? Don't you know how aghast many Chinese feel against, in their opinion, ditching seniors in homes or kids playing baseball while they bomb schoolwork?

No art or culture or creativity, again, get out of 1976. And get out of your individuals centric mindset before you diss 1/6 of the population.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-30-2015, 07:04 PM
 
756 posts, read 828,108 times
Reputation: 886
Exclamation Um:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dog8food View Post
America is becoming China. Let me explain.

In China, unless you have a top degree from a top university, you won't get very far in life. Their population is too big, and there's too many qualified people there; so if one person doesn't give in to the insane demands of management, they'll just hire the next guy. Not to mention, an average salary for a master's degree holder in China is $800 per month. That's right.

Why do you think most products from China are poor quality, or poor copies of successful products? The answer is no creativity. They don't teach it in Chinese schools, why? When you're just trying to struggle to survive, creativity, which largely includes the arts, has very little feasibility in a society. Remember in Western culture when things like operas, poems, and paintings were popular? That's when those countries were doing generally well economically. During struggles, however, it is only the practical that feeds people.

In America, we used to be the land of entrepreneurs. People could have a very decent life without even graduating high school. Not so anymore. With big corporate take-overs and competition for decent paying jobs, as well as illegal immigrants and outsourcing driving down US salaries--now we too are falling into the clutches of being required to pay the insane tuition rates of universities, in order to have that degree and become "professional."

But they don't tell you that, even with a master's or PhD, success/stability is not as much of a guarantee as it used to be. No matter how highly schooled you are, there are always barriers, competition, budget cuts, etc. and you're lucky if you can pay off those college loans before you get married, or have a baby, or retire.

Look to China. That's the direction we're heading (China recently surpassed the US economically). They struggle. They go to school for 12 hours a day with 1 day off a month, just so they can have a decent life. Most people have to continue living with parents even after marriage. We've had it too easy here.

I don't usually like making predictions, and I may be wrong, but I truly believe "globalism" does not benefit us. Globalism will eventually balance out the amount of money people make world wide, and since (if you factor in the earnings of every nation) we are some of the highest wage-earners in the US, it stands to reason that our wages will continue to drop until that balance is reached.

Here's an illustration of the point: in the past, to pay a professional to design a one-page webiste, it would cost me at least $100. But today, because it can be outsourced, I just paid an Indian $5 to do the same, with the same professional quality. Now, who in the right mind would pay 20 times as much for the same product?

The times are getting tough.
Times have ALWAYS been tough?!

I agree with many of your points, but many of them I don't think I agree with. Things cost less in China and India because they are not U.S.A. There is not inflation or materialism. Many things are manufactured there. Many jobs are there. Some are high quality while others are a big fat rip off. I'd say those areas are educated. They are very educated. It is true that many are poor, many struggle, some areas of those nations are very 3rd world. But since when is there creativity from U.S.A.? The love for the fine arts?! An average school will only teach Marching Band instead of full performing arts. And exactly HOW MANY people love classical music? Do they appreciate it?! NEVER! They love Country, Rap , or Land Fill Indie. They have no appreciation for Classical nor Jazz. And yet they take it for granted whenever they want to go to some over priced rip off movie with a soundtrack, that kinda resembles classical music?! And what is animation now?! bloated CGI?! Japan, and South Korea and Thailand (people outsource animation all the time) seem to have better devotion than a holly wood CGI film. And every body rips off ideas from each other. Frasier seems to be a copy of The Bob Newhart Show. Murphy Brown seems to be a copy of Mary Tyler Moore. Family Guy is obviously a copy of Wait Till Your Father Gets Home, and even The Simpsons seems to be a copy of All In The Family. (Okay, I guess the Simpsons isn't. But for a while I thought so). I'd say that Europe had much better creativity. It's only U.S.A. ego and pride that says that U.S.A. is the most creative.

I like globalism, because we all have to share the SAME planet.

And if U.S.A. is becoming China-India, it is certainly better than U.S.A. becoming Mexico!

But I still agree with you that employers suck.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-30-2015, 07:38 PM
 
7,912 posts, read 7,736,904 times
Reputation: 4146
Another china bashing thread...I'll bite

"In China, unless you have a top degree from a top university, you won't get very far in life. Their population is too big, and there's too many qualified people there; so if one person doesn't give in to the insane demands of management, they'll just hire the next guy. Not to mention, an average salary for a master's degree holder in China is $800 per month. That's right."

Then why did wages go up then? In 2000 the median wage for a manufacturing job in China was 50 cents an hour. Now it's $4.50..$800 a month my ass. $4.50 an hour is $180 a day or $3600 a month.

"Why do you think most products from China are poor quality, or poor copies of successful products? The answer is no creativity. They don't teach it in Chinese schools, why? When you're just trying to struggle to survive, creativity, which largely includes the arts, has very little feasibility in a society. Remember in Western culture when things like operas, poems, and paintings were popular? That's when those countries were doing generally well economically. During struggles, however, it is only the practical that feeds people."

Creativity doesn't mean better quality. Apple products are creative but they are made by Foxxconn. Copies? They copy it because the marketing frankly just as western companies did as well. China invented paper so I guess they copied them eh? Should China sue Italy for copying noodles?

"In America, we used to be the land of entrepreneurs. People could have a very decent life without even graduating high school. Not so anymore. With big corporate take-overs and competition for decent paying jobs, as well as illegal immigrants and outsourcing driving down US salaries--now we too are falling into the clutches of being required to pay the insane tuition rates of universities, in order to have that degree and become "professional." "

Not really. Manual labor died out in the non skilled fields. The era of dumb grunt manufacturing is long over. The first robotic arms in automobile manufacturing started in 1965. If you want to work with your hands then learn a trade. If you want to work in manufacturing then learn six sigma and TQM and all of that. The way we made things was horrible back then. Lead paint, asbestos, Ford Pinto etc.

"But they don't tell you that, even with a master's or PhD, success/stability is not as much of a guarantee as it used to be. No matter how highly schooled you are, there are always barriers, competition, budget cuts, etc. and you're lucky if you can pay off those college loans before you get married, or have a baby, or retire."

Huh? What loans? 25% of graduates have no debt and the median have 25K in debt. Which in a four year period is pretty much $150 a week or working part time at walmart.

Look to China. That's the direction we're heading (China recently surpassed the US economically). They struggle. They go to school for 12 hours a day with 1 day off a month, just so they can have a decent life. Most people have to continue living with parents even after marriage. We've had it too easy here.

I don't usually like making predictions, and I may be wrong, but I truly believe "globalism" does not benefit us. Globalism will eventually balance out the amo"unt of money people make world wide, and since (if you factor in the earnings of every nation) we are some of the highest wage-earners in the US, it stands to reason that our wages will continue to drop until that balance is reached.

"Here's an illustration of the point: in the past, to pay a professional to design a one-page webiste, it would cost me at least $100. But today, because it can be outsourced, I just paid an Indian $5 to do the same, with the same professional quality. Now, who in the right mind would pay 20 times as much for the same product?"

Who the hell were you paying $100 to make a one page website? I could get a high school kid to do that for $10.

Who would pay for the same product? Well you are focusing on the labor costs but labor alone does not determine everything. Contract laws do. If you don't have contract laws you cannot do business anywhere in the world. If a check bounces from a company in China what do you do? If employees go on strike what do you do? You cannot honestly expect that the fuel costs, translation costs, currency costs, time differences do not start to add up. Quicken loans went to detroit over brazil for these very reasons.

China Average Yearly Wages in Manufacturing | 1978-2015 | Data | Chart
wages in china went up 3x in six years. Show me a single union that received let alone asked that in any western country. You can't because it doesn't exist.

Times have always been tough.

China's Rising Wages and the 'Made in USA' Revival - Businessweek


You lived and worked in China? When and for how long.

"Do you know about communism? Have you heard of Chairman Mao? Did you know he was responsible for the killing of many teachers and destruction of wisdom literature and educational institutions when he came to power? He feared creative knowledge, because he couldn't control people that way."

Not relaxant to this argument. Remember Deng Xioping? And how he spun off so many factories and loosed up farming. Mao was awlful and not everyone likes him. But if you go to china (and I have) and ask who is to be thanked for all of this it all comes down to Deng.

"I live and work around Chinese every day."
That doesn't really mean anything. That's like saying you know about LGBTA issues by watching Will & Grace.

"If I began to tell you about how their society worked, you would be saddened and disgusted. Example: it is okay to openly discriminate against homosexuality and different races, but mostly blacks. It is quite normally accepted there. I heard it all the time. "...at least she didn't marry a black man"."

They could care less about gays frankly because there is no religious right. People in china have little if any organized religion or at least officially. Hong Kong is another matter. Blacks yes I get you there but that's also because of a lack of being exposed to it. Most in China didn't even have a TV until the 1980's and China did not colonize anyplace so unless they were near Hong Kong or to a lesser point Shanghai then they had no real exposure to it.

"Have you been to Beijing? It's supposed to be their "capital" city. Did you know that disabled people are considered outcasts, and not even in this huge city do they have accessibility for wheelchairs."

Yes and the USA didn't mandate that for 215 years! You cannot judge China from western standards given the isolation. That's like going to Cuba and wondering why their cars don't have ABS Breaks and review cameras!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-30-2015, 10:02 PM
 
5,891 posts, read 3,195,079 times
Reputation: 5548
Quote:
Originally Posted by dog8food View Post
America is becoming China. Let me explain.

In China, unless you have a top degree from a top university, you won't get very far in life. Their population is too big, and there's too many qualified people there; so if one person doesn't give in to the insane demands of management, they'll just hire the next guy. Not to mention, an average salary for a master's degree holder in China is $800 per month. That's right.

Why do you think most products from China are poor quality, or poor copies of successful products? The answer is no creativity. They don't teach it in Chinese schools, why? When you're just trying to struggle to survive, creativity, which largely includes the arts, has very little feasibility in a society. Remember in Western culture when things like operas, poems, and paintings were popular? That's when those countries were doing generally well economically. During struggles, however, it is only the practical that feeds people.

In America, we used to be the land of entrepreneurs. People could have a very decent life without even graduating high school. Not so anymore. With big corporate take-overs and competition for decent paying jobs, as well as illegal immigrants and outsourcing driving down US salaries--now we too are falling into the clutches of being required to pay the insane tuition rates of universities, in order to have that degree and become "professional."

But they don't tell you that, even with a master's or PhD, success/stability is not as much of a guarantee as it used to be. No matter how highly schooled you are, there are always barriers, competition, budget cuts, etc. and you're lucky if you can pay off those college loans before you get married, or have a baby, or retire.

Look to China. That's the direction we're heading (China recently surpassed the US economically). They struggle. They go to school for 12 hours a day with 1 day off a month, just so they can have a decent life. Most people have to continue living with parents even after marriage. We've had it too easy here.

I don't usually like making predictions, and I may be wrong, but I truly believe "globalism" does not benefit us. Globalism will eventually balance out the amount of money people make world wide, and since (if you factor in the earnings of every nation) we are some of the highest wage-earners in the US, it stands to reason that our wages will continue to drop until that balance is reached.

Here's an illustration of the point: in the past, to pay a professional to design a one-page webiste, it would cost me at least $100. But today, because it can be outsourced, I just paid an Indian $5 to do the same, with the same professional quality. Now, who in the right mind would pay 20 times as much for the same product?

The times are getting tough.
You are correct. Globalism hurts Americans immensely...as does immigration. Our politicians are too weak and immoral to put the proper controls in place to enable Americans to increase our living standards. Protectionist economic policies and a moratorium on immigration.

It will have to end of course, because what they are doing is unsustainable...but things are going to be worse before they get better.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-30-2015, 10:11 PM
 
33,748 posts, read 16,742,725 times
Reputation: 17045
Globalism hurts WEAK Americans.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-30-2015, 10:11 PM
 
5,891 posts, read 3,195,079 times
Reputation: 5548
Quote:
Originally Posted by aliss2 View Post
You have a very ignorant view of China. No creativity, are you kidding me? Please don't tell me you think the Chinese are farmed in cram schools as education.
It is not ignorant at all - they haven't invented much of significance since gunpowder....

....and all of their modern electronics and technology IP was pilfered from the West through an insidious campaign of state-sponsored industrial and government espionage. Including nuclear weapons technology.

Then to add insult to injury , Clinton (Slick Willy, not Hillbag), enabled them to modernize their designs and process (via miniaturization) by selling them formerly classified (and still export restricted) high-performance computing systems. (at that time, they'd already stolen the classified CNC designs needed to build the manufacturing equipment as well as most of the components required for a multi-stage package.)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-30-2015, 10:12 PM
 
5,891 posts, read 3,195,079 times
Reputation: 5548
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
Globalism hurts WEAK Americans.
Globalism hurts Americans who work for a living.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top