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Old 05-11-2015, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
33,373 posts, read 20,146,331 times
Reputation: 13040

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
I'm not a holocaust "denier", I'm a holocaust "revisionist". And revisionist really just means someone who wants to "correct the record".”[/i]
I understand. But to me, 6 million or 5 million really makes no difference. There was a holocaust.

Von list interpreted the kabbalah's central maxim to mean that God created a hierarchy of superior and inferior beings.

It seems von list's prophetic powers cannot be as readily dismissed as his visions of the past. Towards the end of the great war, he predicted that those who had given their lives for the fatherland would be reborn to lead a nationalist revolution and wreck revenge on the allies. They would be led by a starke von oben. The year would be 1932. On that point, at least, von list was not far from the truth.

You believe that too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
I

The truth is, war-crimes are always committed by every side in every war. You don't think America is committing war-crimes right now all across the Middle-East? Our drone strikes have killed hundreds or thousands of children and civilians, and only claimed to have killed "insurgents", "terrorists", or "militants" by the people actually using them(who knows if they are telling the truth?).]
I agree with the bolded, but

I also understand one can NEVER judge history with perfect 20/20 hindsight.

For example, the allied troops were exhausted after five long years of war and they just wanted to go home and put the horrors behind them.

So yes, innocent people might have died, innocent people always die in any wars. The best scenario is that there is no war in the world. All can benefit from history, learn from it, and move on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post

And America nuked two Japanese cities, intentionally killing hundreds of thousands of civilians. Let alone all the bombing of civilians in cities across Europe during WWII by Churchill and the allies. And who even wants to discuss all the war-crimes committed by Stalin?] Was Germany more evil than the Japanese?
According to you, Japan is just a garbage country. So America might have felt the same way at the time. Why do you even care what happened to the Japanese?

Personally, I think the Japanese imperialism deserved it, without the bombs, they perhaps would never learn. They should have moved the heck on.

No Germany was not more evil than the Japanese. They both committed terrible crimes against humanity. They might be equally evil AT THE TIME.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post

A state which has destabilized the Middle-East for decades. As I've heard before"Every time anyone says that Israel is our only friend in the Middle East, I can’t help but think that before Israel, we had no enemies in the Middle East.”
This might be true. I never believe allies are that useful anyway.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post

So then why is there a "holocaust" that people won't shut up about when it comes to Germany. But there is no such thing for what the Japanese did to the Chinese, Koreans, and other Asians?[/i]
Do you honestly believe people have shut up about Japanese? LOL No, they haven't and they never will.

Just like they will never shut about holocaust. They perhaps shouldn't.

Millions of people died, civilians died, children, women.

I've read a lot about An 'Unknown Holocaust' and the Hijacking of History. You are not the only one.

But what is your solution seriously?

People want peace, is it really a hard concept for you to swallow?
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Old 05-11-2015, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
8,090 posts, read 4,721,853 times
Reputation: 2877
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTQ3000 View Post
P.S. I'd rather live in that garbage country than in a garbage trailer.
That is your opinion. I would rather live free in a trailer, than live like a virtual slave in an ant-farm like Japan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
So according to you, Patton was correct because he considered every countries garbage!
No, I was pointing out that Patton was just kind of an abrasive *******. You have to be careful about taking everything he ever said literally. Patton thought poorly of pretty much anyone who wasn't an American. He basically thought Europe was a garbage continent(keep in mind, he didn't consider Britain, an Island, to be part of Europe).

But while you are obsessing about him being "anti-semitic". He was really just "anti-everyone who wasn't American". So why focus on only his dislike of the Jews? Because he liked the Germans more? Well, he liked the Germans more than the French, and he was allies with the French and went to war against the Germans. And if you've ever heard his speeches to his troops, he was rather proud of killing Germans. He said "The more and faster we killed these Germans, the fewer Americans who will be killed".

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
Based on the picture that you posted about yourself in another thread, there is NO WAY you can pass the racial purity test if you lived in Germany during ww2.
First, I could really care less about "race". I'm not a "racist", I'm an individualist. I am on your side that "race" is a stupid term. Human diversity doesn't fit into nice-neat boxes. And the only reason people ramble about race, is that they want to use it to their advantage. And why was/is it useful? Because the world is divided into "Nation-states". And a nation means tribe/ancestry/race.


My actual goal when it comes to history, is to destroy the idea that the government is noble, that wars are noble, and that the people themselves are evil. It is fear which has allowed governments to grow out-of-control. Government creates myths about the holocaust, or slavery, or racism, or sexism, or whatever, because it serves the interests of the "state".

You must reject the lies if you want to be free.

A great quote by Thomas Jefferson, "Men by their constitutions are naturally divided into two parties: 1. Those who fear and distrust the people, and wish to draw all powers from them into the hands of the higher classes. 2. Those who identify themselves with the people, have confidence in them, cherish and consider them as the most honest and safe, although not the most wise depositary of the public interests. In every country these two parties exist, and in every one where they are free to think, speak, and write, they will declare themselves. Call them, therefore, Liberals and Serviles, Jacobins and Ultras, Whigs and Tories, Republicans and Federalists, Aristocrats and Democrats, or by whatever name you please, they are the same parties still and pursue the same object. The last one of Aristocrats and Democrats is the true one expressing the essence of all."

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
European culture is a beautiful culture. White people accomplished so much historically. The Renaissance, The French Revolution, arts, music.
I don't care about Europeans. I prefer being white because it is the most advantageous in our world. But I don't find the Europeans as being exceptional by any means. If you ever read why I post on this forum, you'll realize that I'm incredibly critical of those who think Europeans are "superior" because they currently run the world. This is a good thread to show my position on it.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/39552748-post82.html

In all actuality, I probably like the Native-Americans more than the OP. And if you read the above post, you'll realize that I'm a huge fan of the enlightenment. And the enlightenment was all about a sort of "love for nature". Which is where the term "Noble savage" comes from.

Noble savage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am quite proud of my Native-American heritage, and also find it to be quite useful as well. Especially here in my state of Oklahoma.

If you watch this video, you'll see a man named "Ward Churchill". He calls himself an "indigenist", and I'm pretty closely aligned politically with him.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhaPeJvXn8w

Indigenism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 05-11-2015, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
8,090 posts, read 4,721,853 times
Reputation: 2877
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
According to you, Japan is just a garbage country. So America might have felt the same way at the time. Why do you even care what happened to the Japanese?
Look, I think pretty much everyone else in the entire world is garbage. Islam is garbage, communism is garbage, nationalism is garbage, racism is garbage. I think the majority of the people in this country are a bunch of ignorant, hedonistic, materialistic jerks. But it doesn't mean I want to kill them. I'm a classical liberal, live and let live.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
Do you honestly believe people have shut up about Japanese? LOL No, they haven't and they never will.
It isn't that people don't complain about the Japanese. But lets understand, if we look through history, there are all kinds of terrible things which have happened. The holocaust is practically unique in the fact that you aren't allowed to talk about it.

It is the only historical event that will get you fired, thrown out of office, ostracized, and in some countries, arrested, if you question the official story.


It is the only historical event that I'm aware of, where people overwhelmingly don't want to know, and don't want to hear the truth. In fact, if you even try to find the truth and share it, you are immediately branded as "anti-semitic", and that you are trying to hurt a group of people who have already suffered so much.


There are people in prison right now, 70 years after WWII ended, for questioning the holocaust. It is absurd.
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Old 05-11-2015, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
33,373 posts, read 20,146,331 times
Reputation: 13040
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post



It isn't that people don't complain about the Japanese. But lets understand, if we look through history, there are all kinds of terrible things which have happened. The holocaust is practically unique in the fact that you aren't allowed to talk about it.

It is the only historical event that will get you fired, thrown out of office, ostracized, and in some countries, arrested, if you question the official story.


It is the only historical event that I'm aware of, where people overwhelmingly don't want to know, and don't want to hear the truth. In fact, if you even try to find the truth and share it, you are immediately branded as "anti-semitic", and that you are trying to hurt a group of people who have already suffered so much.


There are people in prison right now, 70 years after WWII ended, for questioning the holocaust. It is absurd.
I honestly don't know what to think about this. You won this debate.

But I would like to ask you, if there was a holocaust (and there was), why do you want to hurt a group of people who have suffered so much? Jewish is only 2% of the European population.

Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 05-11-2015 at 04:19 PM..
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Old 05-11-2015, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
33,373 posts, read 20,146,331 times
Reputation: 13040
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post


No, I was pointing out that Patton was just kind of an abrasive *******. You have to be careful about taking everything he ever said literally. Patton thought poorly of pretty much anyone who wasn't an American. He basically thought Europe was a garbage continent(keep in mind, he didn't consider Britain, an Island, to be part of Europe).

But while you are obsessing about him being "anti-semitic". He was really just "anti-everyone who wasn't American". So why focus on only his dislike of the Jews? Because he liked the Germans more? Well, he liked the Germans more than the French, and he was allies with the French and went to war against the Germans. And if you've ever heard his speeches to his troops, he was rather proud of killing Germans. He said "The more and faster we killed these Germans, the fewer Americans who will be killed".



First, I could really care less about "race". I'm not a "racist", I'm an individualist. I am on your side that "race" is a stupid term. Human diversity doesn't fit into nice-neat boxes. And the only reason people ramble about race, is that they want to use it to their advantage. And why was/is it useful? Because the world is divided into "Nation-states". And a nation means tribe/ancestry/race.

No, I've never said race is a stupid term and I don't believe you are a racist either. You prefer to be white, to me, it is the same as you prefer to be a man, Doesn't make any difference to me.

I will treat you as an individual because that is exactly who you are.



My actual goal when it comes to history, is to destroy the idea that the government is noble, that wars are noble, and that the people themselves are evil. It is fear which has allowed governments to grow out-of-control. Government creates myths about the holocaust, or slavery, or racism, or sexism, or whatever, because it serves the interests of the "state".

You must reject the lies if you want to be free.

A great quote by Thomas Jefferson, "Men by their constitutions are naturally divided into two parties: 1. Those who fear and distrust the people, and wish to draw all powers from them into the hands of the higher classes. 2. Those who identify themselves with the people, have confidence in them, cherish and consider them as the most honest and safe, although not the most wise depositary of the public interests. In every country these two parties exist, and in every one where they are free to think, speak, and write, they will declare themselves. Call them, therefore, Liberals and Serviles, Jacobins and Ultras, Whigs and Tories, Republicans and Federalists, Aristocrats and Democrats, or by whatever name you please, they are the same parties still and pursue the same object. The last one of Aristocrats and Democrats is the true one expressing the essence of all."



I don't care about Europeans. I prefer being white because it is the most advantageous in our world. But I don't find the Europeans as being exceptional by any means. If you ever read why I post on this forum, you'll realize that I'm incredibly critical of those who think Europeans are "superior" because they currently run the world. This is a good thread to show my position on it.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/39552748-post82.html

In all actuality, I probably like the Native-Americans more than the OP. And if you read the above post, you'll realize that I'm a huge fan of the enlightenment. And the enlightenment was all about a sort of "love for nature". Which is where the term "Noble savage" comes from.

Noble savage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am quite proud of my Native-American heritage, and also find it to be quite useful as well. Especially here in my state of Oklahoma.

If you watch this video, you'll see a man named "Ward Churchill". He calls himself an "indigenist", and I'm pretty closely aligned politically with him.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhaPeJvXn8w

Indigenism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I don't know what to tell you. According to my grandfather, native-Americans are not white, cubans are not white. But he is not a racist either.

It perhaps doesn't matter at the end of the day.

My response to YOU is in PURPLE.
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Old 05-11-2015, 04:29 PM
 
1,140 posts, read 978,160 times
Reputation: 313
As for racism in the USA, why didn't Southern segregation end in the 1930s? That was the decade that elected FDR, perhaps the first true liberal Democrat (he was a New Yorker, but most white Southerners were also Democrats at the time, and African Americans were only welcome in the party starting with FDR), as the president. I'm surprised he didn't push to end racism the way Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, and Johnson all did, but then again, both the Depression and World War II were distractions. I do really wish African Americans had been able to enjoy an integrated military during WWII, considering the two enemies they were fighting were both racist (Germany and Japan each persecuted several minority groups). And of course by the time Vietnam was invaded, the military was integrated, but the Vietnam War couldn't have happened during a worse time, or had a worse ending. It started when most Americans were still in a carefree 1950s state of mind, while still recovering in some ways from WWII, then the war really started to heat up once JFK was killed by a communist (perhaps why the nation at first seemed to support Johnson in declaring a full-scale war on the North Vietnamese), and was at its peak during the same period the nation went through both a bittersweet racial transformation and a change of social mores that ruined young men's motivation to win the war. Worst of all, Douglas MacArthur and Eisenhower both were old men who died during the war... both men who probably would have opposed the war from day one but were retired too soon to prevent it.
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Old 05-11-2015, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
8,090 posts, read 4,721,853 times
Reputation: 2877
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
I don't know what to tell you. According to my grandfather, native-Americans are not white, cubans are not white. But he is not a racist either.

It perhaps doesn't matter at the end of the day.

My response to YOU is in PURPLE.

What I mean is exactly what Louis CK says. I didn't say I prefer to be white because white is better. I said I prefer to be white because being white is clearly better, who would even argue?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CmzT4OV-w0


And also, let me be clear, I find my particular circumstances to be quite advantageous in my environment here. As I wrote in another thread. I'm white enough to be white, but I'm also part Native-American, which affords me plenty of other privileges as well. The same goes for the fact that I'm 6'2".


Basically, if I hadn't been born yet, and I could choose to be anything. I would have chosen to be someone very similar to current myself. I feel rather blessed.


Here, I posted several more pictures to my flickr account so you can see me through the years.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/46279180@N02/
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Old 05-11-2015, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
33,373 posts, read 20,146,331 times
Reputation: 13040
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
What I mean is exactly what Louis CK says. I didn't say I prefer to be white because white is better. I said I prefer to be white because being white is clearly better, who would even argue?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CmzT4OV-w0


And also, let me be clear, I find my particular circumstances to be quite advantageous in my environment here. As I wrote in another thread. I'm white enough to be white, but I'm also part Native-American, which affords me plenty of other privileges as well. The same goes for the fact that I'm 6'2".


Basically, if I hadn't been born yet, and I could choose to be anything. I would have chosen to be someone very similar to current myself. I feel rather blessed.


Here, I posted several more pictures to my flickr account so you can see me through the years.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/46279180@N02/
I get what you are saying now, I truly do.

Thanks for the pictures.

Regarding the holocaust though, there are overwhelming evidences to prove that it really did happen. Jewish people suffered so much.

Oh, in term of the remark about your first picture, I didn't mean to say that you are not white, I just mean to say that you wouldn't pass Hitler's version of Aryan race. That doesn't mean you are not white. I am glad it worked out for you.
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Old 05-11-2015, 04:43 PM
 
1,140 posts, read 978,160 times
Reputation: 313
Speaking of The Holocaust, it's sadly ironic that at least one of the 9/11 attackers (a Muslim who I think was Egyptian) had lived in and raised money in Germany. I'm surprised he got away with such a racket in a country that passed strict laws after the Nazi period to prevent violence against Jews and terrorism. And Germany after having been the site of the 1972 Munich Massacre should have had better safeguards against Islamic terrorism.
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Old 05-11-2015, 05:26 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 13,021,541 times
Reputation: 5905
Quote:
Originally Posted by motownewave View Post
As for racism in the USA, why didn't Southern segregation end in the 1930s? That was the decade that elected FDR, perhaps the first true liberal Democrat (he was a New Yorker, but most white Southerners were also Democrats at the time, and African Americans were only welcome in the party starting with FDR), as the president. I'm surprised he didn't push to end racism the way Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, and Johnson all did, but then again, both the Depression and World War II were distractions. I do really wish African Americans had been able to enjoy an integrated military during WWII, considering the two enemies they were fighting were both racist (Germany and Japan each persecuted several minority groups). And of course by the time Vietnam was invaded, the military was integrated, but the Vietnam War couldn't have happened during a worse time, or had a worse ending. It started when most Americans were still in a carefree 1950s state of mind, while still recovering in some ways from WWII, then the war really started to heat up once JFK was killed by a communist (perhaps why the nation at first seemed to support Johnson in declaring a full-scale war on the North Vietnamese), and was at its peak during the same period the nation went through both a bittersweet racial transformation and a change of social mores that ruined young men's motivation to win the war. Worst of all, Douglas MacArthur and Eisenhower both were old men who died during the war... both men who probably would have opposed the war from day one but were retired too soon to prevent it.
What? Eisenhauer was POTUS AFTER WW 2.

Too; many other groups of Americans had to put up with "racism" after 1940; Japanese, Jews, us "Irish", NON white Hispanics and so on.
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