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Old 05-10-2015, 06:01 AM
 
Location: My little patch of Earth
6,193 posts, read 4,565,155 times
Reputation: 3046

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
Does the OP know that:
  • Before Europeans came to america, Native Americans were slaughtering each other?
  • Before slavery existed in Europe & America, it was endemic in Africa?
  • Before humans became civilized, they were all atheists?
Quite true, but many Native American cultures were also cannibals as well as slavers.
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Old 05-10-2015, 06:06 AM
 
Location: My little patch of Earth
6,193 posts, read 4,565,155 times
Reputation: 3046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace_TX View Post
i ran into a few white people who have displayed "white guilt" around me (im black) and besides me looking at them sideways i try to find out what they are doing to ease this guilt complex, and guess what nothing...

people who have irrational feelings of white-guilt dont do shht but talk, rant and/or post about

i even told one, "hey, well you can help me out with a few dollars to put on these bills" i have yet to receive any money

didnt al gore or somebody have this hustle going on back in the day where morons were paying money to some entity because they felt guilt about using too much carbon?

i am telling you all, if you want to relieve some pent up guilt, i have a website where you can donate $ that will help out a few black people [no b.s.]

i challenge you people to donate $ today sunday 5-10-2015...see if $10k can be raised today
How novel........hey whitey - gimme some money cuz your ancestors were mean to my ancestors.

My ancestors provided safe houses on the underground railroad. Do I get a cut?
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Old 05-10-2015, 06:16 AM
 
Location: *
8,093 posts, read 2,411,258 times
Reputation: 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spatula City View Post
Japan is an absolutely awful example of a 'greatest nation on Earth'. It's a lot easier for a white westerner to sweep their colonial aspirations under the rug, but rest assured there is still all kinds of resentment throughout Asia over what Imperial Japan did to the region. The idea that the Chinese and Koreans were defended by Japan or owe a lot of their good fortune to Japan would NOT go over well in China or Korea. I lived in Korea for years and the mention of Japan was usually met with hostility even from young children. They're not keen on the US occupation either, but at the very least the Americans aren't trying to extinguish their entire culture and replace it with their own, forcing them to speak English, or suppressing their alphabet... well, not anymore, at least.

The Japanese were not at all unlike the Nazis in their cruelty-- there was forced conscription, medical experiments on prisoners (which then bought a pass for the experimenters when the US decided the info was more important than justice), forced prostitution. The only reason they are so peaceful today is because after the war ended they were strictly forbidden from developing their military by the Americans. They owe much of their prosperity to the Korean war, when the US used them as a manufacturing base for bombs and tanks and planes and guns... it kickstarted their entire economy.

I would agree that the US is far from noble and it's dishonest to say that ALL cultures are equally warlike or have colonial aspirations. I don't agree that we should gloss over colonial history and even if our ancestors didn't own slaves outright, they definitely benefited from slave labor in the form of cheap products and services. They also benefitted from the slaughter of the First Nations, even if they didn't directly participate.

Part of living in a civilized society is recognizing how you got there and trying to do the right thing. Guilt doesn't necessarily serve that purpose, but it's better than denial.
I agree guilt doesn't necessarily serve the purpose & I agree it's better than denial. Although if the aim is to do the right thing, it doesn't seem to make sense to be able to do so without admitting or denying any wrong doing.
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Old 05-10-2015, 06:17 AM
 
8,940 posts, read 5,079,640 times
Reputation: 9260
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrench409 View Post
How novel........hey whitey - gimme some money cuz your ancestors were mean to my ancestors.

My ancestors provided safe houses on the underground railroad. Do I get a cut?

isnt that the typical response now, gimmee, gimmee
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Old 05-10-2015, 06:21 AM
 
3,201 posts, read 3,567,111 times
Reputation: 4407
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrench409 View Post
How novel........hey whitey - gimme some money cuz your ancestors were mean to my ancestors.

My ancestors provided safe houses on the underground railroad. Do I get a cut?
yes, you get a cut

do you not see what im doing here

i am not the one making white guilt threads

i am just playing along and proving a point at the same time

you notice i said that this phenomena known as 'white guilt' is irrational (or did you miss that part)

btw, i dont nor have i ever used the term "whitey' ironically white-guilt obsessed white people do like they arent white (which is another topic altogether)

i guess you dont have plans on "gimeee'n" money
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Old 05-10-2015, 07:01 AM
 
Location: *
8,093 posts, read 2,411,258 times
Reputation: 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
...
Yes, the Constitution was written in-part by slave-owners. But, a majority of the founding fathers and framers, didn't support slavery and would have happily abolished it. The problem was that the southern colonies just had too much invested in slavery to give it up. And the goal was to keep all the colonies united. For instance, people like John Adams and Alexander Hamilton would have gladly abolished slavery. Benjamin Franklin not only wasn't a fan of slavery, he was quite the advocate for the Native-Americans as well. And Thomas Jefferson had been one of the fiercest critics of slavery. The problem was in how to end slavery without destroying the economy, and for that matter, the country. ...
The founders compromised on the issue of race based slavery. This is a contradiction of the document's intent. The American Civil War was fought over this. After the ACW:

Quote:
At the beginning of 1867, no African American in the South held political office, but within three or four years "about 15 percent of the officeholders in the South were black—a larger proportion than in 1990."[116] In 1860 blacks were the majority of the population in Mississippi and South Carolina, 47% in Louisiana, 45% in Alabama, and 44% in Georgia and Florida,[117] so their political influence was still far less than their percentage of the population.
Reconstruction Era - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

& there are still folks in the present day who seem to claim this Country doesn't have a problem with race.

The problems of the present day do not include how to end slavery although I think compromises are still being made. Folks back then seemed to think the economy would be destroyed if the institution of slavery were ended. Folks today? What is it that's destroying the economy? We seem to have evolved into an aristocracy of sorts, maybe more of a corporatocracy. What are the compromises being made in the present day?
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Old 05-10-2015, 07:02 AM
 
364 posts, read 227,940 times
Reputation: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by motownewave View Post
I don't "hate" anyone. As a very open-minded person, I simply wish Americans wouldn't romanticize about the Founding Fathers and Constitution. And there would have been HELL to pay if I were a Native American the day the European warships started bringing large numbers of people to my land. Or if I were there when the first slave ship came, I would lead a band of my fellow men to raid the ship, kill all the whites on board, and welcome the slaves to my land. And I would burn the ship down.

As for the hype about "Western civilization" and its unique greatness, the idea that only white Europeans were smart enough to create it is horsesh!t. Japan is what I consider to be the greatest nation on Earth, and its very smart people have the same DNA as Native Americans. What the Japanese did to Americans (and Chinese for that matter) a generation ago is regrettable but was motivated by very deep spiritual convictions that I think overall were a force for justice, not evil. Hong Kong, Taiwan, and South Korea owe a lot of their good fortune to Japan, who has defended all three from Chinese aggression throughout the centuries (but I will admit many Korean women were raped by Japanese forces), though unfortunately China once again owns the once-British colony Hong Kong. Civil unrest lately has made me think either Japan or Russia will help Hong Kong fight China for independence eventually though.
Do you happen to be a college student or recent college graduate? This seems like the kind of propaganda a brainwashed college or high school kid would repeat from his hate whitey professor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by motownewave View Post
Nothing is more evil than the creation of "Israel" (the modern nation with that name, not the ancient nation) by 20th Century European and American Jews. Propaganda leads most conservative Christians into believing this despicable creation is fulfilling the Scriptures, but in reality, "Israel" is interfering with Muslims fulfilling their own ancient religion's duties, and most Jews in the stolen Muslim lands are of Jewish ethnicity but are nonbelievers in Judaism.
I agree there 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace_TX View Post
i ran into a few white people who have displayed "white guilt" around me (im black) and besides me looking at them sideways i try to find out what they are doing to ease this guilt complex, and guess what nothing...

people who have irrational feelings of white-guilt dont do shht but talk, rant and/or post about

i even told one, "hey, well you can help me out with a few dollars to put on these bills" i have yet to receive any money

didnt al gore or somebody have this hustle going on back in the day where morons were paying money to some entity because they felt guilt about using too much carbon?

i am telling you all, if you want to relieve some pent up guilt, i have a website where you can donate $ that will help out a few black people [no b.s.]

i challenge you people to donate $ today sunday 5-10-2015...see if $10k can be raised today
As a black person does to bother you,making you mad whatever that these people with white guilt act like they know what it was like to be black whenever? To me if I was black it would insult me.
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Old 05-10-2015, 07:32 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
33,237 posts, read 20,081,203 times
Reputation: 12984
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spatula City View Post
Japan is an absolutely awful example of a 'greatest nation on Earth'. It's a lot easier for a white westerner to sweep their colonial aspirations under the rug, but rest assured there is still all kinds of resentment throughout Asia over what Imperial Japan did to the region. The idea that the Chinese and Koreans were defended by Japan or owe a lot of their good fortune to Japan would NOT go over well in China or Korea. I lived in Korea for years and the mention of Japan was usually met with hostility even from young children. They're not keen on the US occupation either, but at the very least the Americans aren't trying to extinguish their entire culture and replace it with their own, forcing them to speak English, or suppressing their alphabet... well, not anymore, at least.
well, I've been to Korea too and I have never experienced the hostility you described. Maybe my experience has been different.

They know I am mixed Japanse/German, They always said it is a hot mix and wanted to hang out. I also thought it was strange but cute that Koreans always loved the latest Japanese animation, fashion, etc. The younger generation is totally different.

Anyway, I think this Korean dude has a point,

Although recently Korean youngsters just love Japanese culture and a lot of Japanese people come over to Korea for sightseeing and all, this hatred is deeply placed in most of Koreans.

I found out recently that in Germany, it is against the law to deny holocaust. Japan, on the other hand, is another story.

Why do so many young Koreans hate Japanese? - Quora

I am disconnected with the Japanese culture, but yes, I love it. Also, I adore German culture. It is just awesome. I love Chinese, Koreans, I especially love Taiwan, That is a civilized region and nothing close to Mainland China.

I think it is understandable why Koreans and Chinese hate Japan, but it is kind of sad to live in the past.

I hate what Japan did in the past, but it is ancient history. When some folks mention "We want to kill all the Japs and rape their women" I just realize how much I DO NOT care about their past suffering.

It is what it is. You cannot cure hatred with hatred. Only peace and love work. Nothing they say or do will make ME feel guilty because I have nothing to do with their suffering.
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Old 05-10-2015, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
8,090 posts, read 4,710,956 times
Reputation: 2877
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
The founders compromised on the issue of race based slavery. This is a contradiction of the document's intent. The American Civil War was fought over this. After the ACW:
To be fair, the Constitution's intent had nothing to do with slavery. The Declaration of Independence is the one that said "All men are created equal". Of course, the Declaration of Independence wasn't a legal document, and the Continental Congress removed Thomas Jefferson scathing criticism of the institution of slavery.

The Civil War was not fought over race-based slavery. I wish people would stop saying it. Even Lincoln admitted as such, during the Civil War.

Lincoln Address to Black Americans

Lincoln wrote, "We look to our condition, owing to the existence of the two races on this continent. I need not recount to you the effects upon white men, growing out of the institution of Slavery. I believe in its general evil effects on the white race. See our present condition---the country engaged in war!---our white men cutting one another's throats, none knowing how far it will extend; and then consider what we know to be the truth. But for your race among us there could not be war, although many men engaged on either side do not care for you one way or the other. Nevertheless, I repeat, without the institution of Slavery and the colored race as a basis, the war could not have an existence."


As Lincoln said, the Civil War was the outcome of the existence of slavery in the United States. The war was not fought over slavery. In fact, Lincoln originally intended to allow slavery to continue in the south. And that position held for the first two years of the war.

As Frederick Douglass said of Lincoln in 1876, "He was preeminently the white man’s President, entirely devoted to the welfare of white men. He was ready and willing at any time during the first years of his administration to deny, postpone, and sacrifice the rights of humanity in the colored people to promote the welfare of the white people of this country. In all his education and feeling he was an American of the Americans. He came into the Presidential chair upon one principle alone, namely, opposition to the extension of slavery. His arguments in furtherance of this policy had their motive and mainspring in his patriotic devotion to the interests of his own race. To protect, defend, and perpetuate slavery in the states where it existed Abraham Lincoln was not less ready than any other President to draw the sword of the nation. He was ready to execute all the supposed guarantees of the United States Constitution in favor of the slave system anywhere inside the slave states. He was willing to pursue, recapture, and send back the fugitive slave to his master, and to suppress a slave rising for liberty, though his guilty master were already in arms against the Government."

Oration in Memory of Abraham Lincoln | Teaching American History


Furthermore, Lysander Spooner discussed this issue as well in 1867... "The pretense that the “abolition of slavery” was either a motive or justification for the war, is a fraud of the same character with that of “maintaining the national honor.” Who, but such usurpers, robbers, and murderers as they, ever established slavery? Or what government, except one resting upon the sword, like the one we now have, was ever capable of maintaining slavery? And why did these men abolish slavery? Not from any love of liberty in general – not as an act of justice to the black man himself, but only “as a war measure,” and because they wanted his assistance, and that of his friends, in carrying on the war they had undertaken...

If their object had really been to abolish slavery, or maintain liberty or justice generally, they had only to say: All, whether white or black, who want the protection of this government, shall have it; and all who do not want it, will be left in peace, so long as they leave us in peace. Had they said this, slavery would necessarily have been abolished at once; the war would have been saved; and a thousand times nobler union than we have ever had would have been the result. It would have been a voluntary union of free men.


Lysander Spooner – No Treason No. 6: The Constitution of No Authority


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
The problems of the present day do not include how to end slavery although I think compromises are still being made. Folks back then seemed to think the economy would be destroyed if the institution of slavery were ended. Folks today? What is it that's destroying the economy? We seem to have evolved into an aristocracy of sorts, maybe more of a corporatocracy. What are the compromises being made in the present day?
First, the economy was destroyed when the institution of slavery ended. Of course, no one really noticed because the economy had already been destroyed by the war and the union blockade.

Secondly, this reminds me of a comment by Samuel L. Jackson on why he voted for Obama... "'I voted for Barack because he was black. 'Cuz that’s why other folks vote for other people — because they look like them."

Samuel L. Jackson: 'I Voted for Obama because he's black' | Daily Mail Online

It sounds a bit coarse, and its hard to hear without cringing, but he isn't necessarily wrong. I'm sure there were plenty of people who both voted against Obama because he is black, and people who voted for Obama because he was black. And that isn't simply a matter of people who look like them, it can be people of every race. I know for a fact a lot of white people voted for Obama precisely because he was black. I remember people even saying things like "Vote for Obama so we can prove that America has moved beyond race"(as funny as that sounds if you really think about it).

But racial/ethnic politics is nothing new. It seems that both parties are trying to find ways to grab a bigger share of the Hispanic vote these days(Rubio?).


Here is the truth, a colorblind society is simply impossible. It is something which has never been, and never will be. This isn't only true in racially-charged America, it is true all across Latin-America, Africa, and everywhere else.
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Old 05-10-2015, 07:53 AM
 
1,661 posts, read 1,652,257 times
Reputation: 1704
Quote:
Originally Posted by motownewave View Post
I don't "hate" anyone. As a very open-minded person, I simply wish Americans wouldn't romanticize about the Founding Fathers and Constitution. And there would have been HELL to pay if I were a Native American the day the European warships started bringing large numbers of people to my land. Or if I were there when the first slave ship came, I would lead a band of my fellow men to raid the ship, kill all the whites on board, and welcome the slaves to my land. And I would burn the ship down.

As for the hype about "Western civilization" and its unique greatness, the idea that only white Europeans were smart enough to create it is horsesh!t. Japan is what I consider to be the greatest nation on Earth, and its very smart people have the same DNA as Native Americans. What the Japanese did to Americans (and Chinese for that matter) a generation ago is regrettable but was motivated by very deep spiritual convictions that I think overall were a force for justice, not evil. Hong Kong, Taiwan, and South Korea owe a lot of their good fortune to Japan, who has defended all three from Chinese aggression throughout the centuries (but I will admit many Korean women were raped by Japanese forces), though unfortunately China once again owns the once-British colony Hong Kong. Civil unrest lately has made me think either Japan or Russia will help Hong Kong fight China for independence eventually though.
That's possibly the silliest thing I've read all day. Japan's aggression against Asia and ultimately the United States was motivated almost entirely by the pursuit of natural resources and a desire to expand their empire. There was nothing "spiritual" about the massacre in Nanjing China. Or the slaughter in Bataan.

Revisionist history is the worst kind.
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